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gx-x
Elite Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2683
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 Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: OS != SW |
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| amra wrote: | @gx
If you have an accident with your car, would you say:
"Sorry the car made it!"?
So... if your software isn't supported on linux, this isn't linux' fault.
Don't blame linux for tools it doesn't have, cause developers don't write software for it.
Everybody can/should choose what fits for his needs. |
I didn't blame anyone. You got to understand (not just you) that linux and windows cannot be compared because they serve a different purpose. Linux speed vs windows speed comparison is as relevant as automobile versus boat comparison. One is good on water, other is good on road, neither is capable of both. |
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Csimbi
Elite Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 5582
Location: The bright side of the dark side
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: Re: OS != SW |
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| gx-x wrote: | | One is good on water, other is good on road, neither is capable of both. |
I hope that is going to change eventually...
At least, nowadays there are Linux apps for nearly anything.
The only things missing for me are: Skype and gaming.
MS owns Skype so a Linux port will never come.
MS won't provide DirectX for Linux for sure and they do a very good job with their marketing crap (making sure everyone that matters think that OpenGL is no match for DirectX) thus keeping gaming stick to Windows. |
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Kompressor
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 229
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| This is all we need is another sleep, standby, and hibernation mode variant. |
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Baconnaise
Elite Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 710
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Yea I'm getting tired of shutting off all the power saving bullshit. |
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amra
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I didn't blame anyone. You got to understand (not just you) that linux and windows cannot be compared because they serve a different purpose. Linux speed vs windows speed comparison is as relevant as automobile versus boat comparison. One is good on water, other is good on road, neither is capable of both. |
Basically we both are singing from the same songsheet. You are violine and I'm bass. ;)
You assume that I don't know about their purpose and so on, but as I said and far more... that you work with windows and your wintools is more a fact of developing (of the tools you need for your work), not of the OS-based environment. Absolutly... both are different, but not like boat and car, more like electro- and conventional car, imho, depending on your focus to an OS.
The pc is the cardesign and construction, the OS is the engine. Of course you are allowed to compare them. But perhaps I missunderstood you. |
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gx-x
Elite Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2683
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| amra wrote: | | Quote: | | I didn't blame anyone. You got to understand (not just you) that linux and windows cannot be compared because they serve a different purpose. Linux speed vs windows speed comparison is as relevant as automobile versus boat comparison. One is good on water, other is good on road, neither is capable of both. |
Basically we both are singing from the same songsheet. You are violine and I'm bass. 
You assume that I don't know about their purpose and so on, but as I said and far more... that you work with windows and your wintools is more a fact of developing (of the tools you need for your work), not of the OS-based environment. Absolutly... both are different, but not like boat and car, more like electro- and conventional car, imho, depending on your focus to an OS.
The pc is the cardesign and construction, the OS is the engine. Of course you are allowed to compare them. But perhaps I missunderstood you. |
no, I cant compare them because linux doesn't have to load 100000 drivers to support every piece of crap hardware out there and 1000 that are going to come out, it doesn't need to support directX, nor the one million dollar industrial printer or any peripherals, you won't bitch about it when it doesn't support something because you don't even have to pay for it, and because of all that stuff it is very light, fast and boot's up quicker.
Call me when adobe releases photoshop or premiere for linux and then MAYBE we can talk about putting windows or OSX into same category with linux.
As it is now, they can be compared as much as (another one coming  ) my nokia e51 vs HTC HD2. They are both phones alright, but my nokia e51 is faster... |
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Csimbi
Elite Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 5582
Location: The bright side of the dark side
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| gx-x wrote: | | no, I cant compare them because linux doesn't have to load 100000 drivers to support every piece of crap hardware out there and 1000 that are going to come out, it doesn't need to support directX, nor the one million dollar industrial printer or any peripherals, you won't bitch about it when it doesn't support something because you don't even have to pay for it, and because of all that stuff it is very light, fast and boot's up quicker. |
Windows does not have to. But it does anyway.
Linux loads only what's actually needed. |
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gx-x
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2683
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Csimbi wrote: |
Windows does not have to. But it does anyway.
Linux loads only what's actually needed. |
Ya, what linux THINKS it's needed. It may actually deviate from real needs. And windows doesn't actually load everything, it just has almost everything and loads the components that can load everything.
it's all good and fine with linux until you need something that is only available for OSX or Win, then it becomes pretty much useless and load times don't mean shit. Hell, even if you are a system administrator in a windows infested world linux can't be the only OS on your machine.
besides, you use windows almost all the time (i presume, since you are here on the gaming portal and linux doesn't do "much" games) so I don't really see the point in your persistence in some kind of defense of linux :S I personally couldn't care less for linux. I used it, I sometimes still use it for some really specific purposes, but I don't really care about it.
Win 7 is pretty much fine, idc what and how much stuff it loads (I can even control that) my 3 year old PC handles it with zero issues and it runs darn fast. Why should I care about boot time or how much stuff it loads? |
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amra
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | no, I cant compare them because linux doesn't have to load 100000 drivers to support every piece of crap hardware out there and 1000 that are going to come out, it doesn't need to support directX, nor the one million dollar industrial printer or any peripherals, you won't bitch about it when it doesn't support something because you don't even have to pay for it, and because of all that stuff it is very light, fast and boot's up quicker.
Call me when adobe releases photoshop or premiere for linux and then MAYBE we can talk about putting windows or OSX into same category with linux.
As it is now, they can be compared as much as (another one coming :D ) my nokia e51 vs HTC HD2. They are both phones alright, but my nokia e51 is faster... |
Hm, I'm for myself do spend a lot of time with searches for drivers for both linux and windows. Any Dell, HP or Intel-PC will need drivers for windows, if you install them with the std-ISO from MS.
For that thing I would say they are equal, you have std-HW no problem on both, the std-Install works pretty much.
The only difference I see is that the chance of finding a suitable driver is much higher for windows.
About Boot Times in my opinion anything under 1 minute is absolutly okay. This run for seconds is the same stupid run as they had for GHz.
Why anybody compares linux and windows in this is a mystery to me, but sure they can, I'll notice and have my own position.
What I'd like to see are comparisons of firefox and such under the different OSes.
I run windows for developing with .Net, linux for Java and webstuff, logically this means visiting this website isn't a valueable fact to analyze the users OS ;P
PS
| Quote: | | you won't bitch about it when it doesn't support something because you don't even have to pay for it |
You do like this? I'm bitching about it for sure, "why the hell this isn't supported!" old behavior from windows =) |
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gx-x
Elite Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2683
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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well, my friend works in PC service and is specialized in Dell laptops (amongst other things) and I have seen many Dells and MSIs that you install win7 on and everything runs without any additional drivers except in some cases some usb hubs that contain integrated BT devices need special drivers that come with laptop's CD/DVD. Good luck finding that for linux 
ofc, when I say windows NOW I mean windows 7, not windows 98 or XP. Even XP is still pretty solid considering it comes from m$ that manged to make even consoles that crash ^^ |
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Csimbi
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 5582
Location: The bright side of the dark side
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| gx-x wrote: | | besides, you use windows almost all the time (i presume, since you are here on the gaming portal and linux doesn't do "much" games) so I don't really see the point in your persistence in some kind of defense of linux :S I personally couldn't care less for linux. I used it, I sometimes still use it for some really specific purposes, but I don't really care about it. |
Yes on my main PC.
No specific reason to defend Linux but I have two Linux boxes (a server and a desktop) so when somebody goes on claiming that they created something that provides superior boot times, then I feel obligated to correct them because I've seen that there are faster ways to boot.
Linux does not need defense, rather, support from the software houses...
BTW, I think Windows 7 sucks just the same in the driver department just as XP and Win98. It's just not an issue on older hardware because those drivers are integrated, so you won't notice the need... until you buy new hardware... plus, enforcement of the driver signing policy is a major pain because it does not let you develop your own. Sure, I understand the reason for dummies, but I do not understand why pros need to suffer... |
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gx-x
Elite Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2683
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Csimbi wrote: | | gx-x wrote: | | besides, you use windows almost all the time (i presume, since you are here on the gaming portal and linux doesn't do "much" games) so I don't really see the point in your persistence in some kind of defense of linux :S I personally couldn't care less for linux. I used it, I sometimes still use it for some really specific purposes, but I don't really care about it. |
Yes on my main PC.
No specific reason to defend Linux but I have two Linux boxes (a server and a desktop) so when somebody goes on claiming that they created something that provides superior boot times, then I feel obligated to correct them because I've seen that there are faster ways to boot.
Linux does not need defense, rather, support from the software houses...
BTW, I think Windows 7 sucks just the same in the driver department just as XP and Win98. It's just not an issue on older hardware because those drivers are integrated, so you won't notice the need... until you buy new hardware... plus, enforcement of the driver signing policy is a major pain because it does not let you develop your own. Sure, I understand the reason for dummies, but I do not understand why pros need to suffer... |
ok, first, driver signing is a two click off option, it's not a feature set in stone. Second: I told you already, that boot time in this video is less then 4 seconds, but it's also booting into nothing or it's using a hyberfil file and an SSD, in witch case I could boot win7 in aprox the same time.
edit: pros in my department (design) would suffer on linux, it would be a living hell of the worst kind. To each his own... |
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ming1992
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:48 am Post subject: Pavtube Blu-Ray Ripper |
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Csimbi
Elite Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 5582
Location: The bright side of the dark side
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| gx-x wrote: | | ok, first, driver signing is a two click off option, it's not a feature set in stone. |
I am not sure where you are getting your information, I wish that was true.
The only way I can get it to work is tapping F8 during boot and changing the regular boot. |
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gx-x
Elite Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2683
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Csimbi wrote: | | gx-x wrote: | | ok, first, driver signing is a two click off option, it's not a feature set in stone. |
I am not sure where you are getting your information, I wish that was true.
The only way I can get it to work is tapping F8 during boot and changing the regular boot. |
http://www.killertechtips.com/2009/05/06/disable-driver-signing-in-windows-7-using-group-policy-editor/
or
| Quote: |
1. Go to Start menu and type cmd.exe in the Search Bar and press Enter. (Remember you must be logged on as Administrator)
2. Now type the following and press Enter:
Code:
bcdedit.exe -set loadoptions DDISABLE_INTEGRITY_CHECKS
bcdedit.exe -set TESTSIGNING ON
3. Restart your computer
This will disable your Windows 7 driver signing.
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