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 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,16 2021 - tech 
AMD RX 6600 $330 GPU Review & Benchmarks - tech
(hx) 09:33 AM CEST - Oct,16 2021 - Post a comment
AMD's new RX 6600 manages to further cannibalize the PC DIY industry in favor of quick, short-term profits at risk of causing long-term damage.

 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,15 2021 - tech
As if things couldn't get worse for Microsoft... This Windows 11 issue is unacceptable! - tech
(hx) 11:46 PM CEST - Oct,15 2021 - Post a comment / read (2)
If you have an AMD CPU then you should NOT upgrade to Windows 11... Here's why!

Windows 11 on Ryzen CPU - How Bad is it? - tech
(hx) 11:31 AM CEST - Oct,15 2021 - Post a comment / read (1)
Windows 11 vs Windows 10 on AMD Ryzen 9 5900X l 1080p

 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,14 2021 - tech
This Just Saved me $100,000 - tech
(hx) 08:55 PM CEST - Oct,14 2021 - Post a comment / read (4)
A lot of monitors, particularly gaming ones, come with DP or HDMI cables. I’d like to see if the cables that are shipped with high end monitors can really support the product that you buy.

 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,13 2021 - tech
AMD introduces Radeon RX 6600 non-XT - tech
(hx) 10:23 PM CEST - Oct,13 2021 - Post a comment / read (4)
AMD Radeon RX 6600 is based on Navi 23 GPU with 1792 Stream Processors, a reduction of 256 cores from the full chip, and also the RX 6600 XT variant. This model represents the lowest tier in the whole RX 6000 lineup based on RDNA2 architecture. Despite being the slowest, the card is still packed with 8GB GDDR6 memory, although limited to the 128-bit memory bus and 14 Gbps speed. This means that the card has a nearly identical memory configuration to RX 6600 XT but it has lower bandwidth of 224 GB/s. To avoid self-competition among RDNA2 GPUs, the card has lower clock speeds compared to the XT model by nearly 315 MHz for the base and 98 MHz for boost. Those changes are a result of lower board power of 132W, a reduction of 28W from the higher-end SKU. AMD decided to compare its Radeon RX 6600 card with GeForce RTX 3060, which just happens to be the slowest Ampere model out there. AMD card may not be able to win against RTX 3060 in all games, but it will offer better performance per watt. AMD Radeon RX 6600 will carry a price tag of 329 USD, but this price will likely not be mirrored by retailers.

First Windows 11 Patches makes Ryzen perform way worse than before - tech
(hx) 10:28 AM CEST - Oct,13 2021 - Post a comment / read (5)
Microsoft released the first-ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 11 last night with the new build version 22000.258 and apparently, the update makes the Level 3 (L3) cache latency for Ryzen CPUs even worse. AMD and Microsoft had earlier acknowledged that even the supported Zen-based processors, i.e., Zen+ and newer AMD CPUs, were exhibiting symptoms showing increased L3 latency that was affecting the performance of such CPUs in latency-sensitive applications like games, among other things. And the problem seems to have been aggravated with the new build. TechPowerUp says that the typical L3 latency for a Zen+ based Ryzen 7 2700X is around 10ns which was increased by more than 70% in the initial Windows 11 public release, as it measured around 17.1ns. However, after the Patch Tuesday update last night, the 2700X now gives an L3 cache latency of 39.1ns on the AIDA64 benchmark. That's nearly four times worse than what the CPU generally performs like.

Thankfully, there is a report that claims a Windows update, which will supposedly fix this L3 cache latency issue, is purportedly launching next week on October 19. The same report also adds that the CPPC2 problem will also be fixed with another update that will roll out a couple of days later on October 21.
 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,12 2021 - tech
Windows 11 runs Graphical Linux Apps out of the box with WSLg - tech
(hx) 10:52 PM CEST - Oct,12 2021 - Post a comment / read (2)
Windows 11 runs Graphical Linux Apps out of the box with WSLg! Type "wsl --install" from the Windows Terminal command prompt and go go go! We'll see VS Code, WSLg, The Gimp, and much more.

NVIDIA Releases Game Ready 496.13 WHQL GeForce Graphics Driver - tech
(hx) 06:06 PM CEST - Oct,12 2021 - Post a comment / read (2)
NVIDIA has today launched its 496.13 game-ready WHQL GeForce graphics driver with many improvements and changes. Starting with the naming, the company has jumped from the 472.12 WHQL version released on September 20th to the 496.xx naming released today. Such a significant increase in version naming is uncommon, and makes us wonder why the company decided to do it, probably in preparation for the Windows 11 branch of their drivers, which uses version 500.

Starting from release 496.13, NVIDIA has also removed support for Windows 8.1, Windows 8 and Windows 7. The last driver to support these operating systems is 472.12. This makes some sense, since between this release and today, Microsoft has launched their Windows 11 operating system. NVIDIA also trimmed more fat by removing support for the Kepler architecture, which was launched in 2012 and included models like GeForce GTX 780 Ti, GTX 780, GTX 770, GTX 760, GT 740, GT 730, GTX 690, GTX 680, GTX 670, GTX 660 Ti, GTX 660, GTX 650 Ti and GTX 630.

In addition, this release is unique because it lacks the standard, non-DCH driver version that NVIDIA usually releases, in addition to the DCH driver. Today's release contains the DCH version of the driver only, pushing Microsoft's DCH driver packaging technique as the way forward. Both AMD and Intel have been shipping DCH drivers exclusively for a long time. On NVIDIA, the only significant difference is that the classic driver control panel is gone and that you'll have to download the UWP version through the Microsoft App Store.

As with any game-ready driver, NVIDIA added support for the latest Back 4 Blood, Baldur's Gate 3, and Crysis Remaster Trilogy, which are October's upcoming games. As we previously covered, this driver also expands NVIDIA Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS) support to a few more games, which we have covered in the previous post here. For a full change-log, please see the list at the end of the post.
Intel Core i5-12400 Could be the Next Price-Performance King - tech
(d@rkfu) 12:37 AM CEST - Oct,12 2021 - Post a comment / read (10)
Intel's upcoming Core i5-12400 "Alder Lake-S" processor could be an interesting piece of silicon. Apparently, not all 12th Gen Core i5 desktop chips have the same core-configuration. While the top Core i5-12600K is expected to have six "Golden Cove" P cores and four "Gracemont" E-cores, some of the lower variants, such as the i5-12400, will lack E cores, and be pure P core chips. In this case, the chip is 6-core/12-thread with just P cores; 1.25 MB of dedicated L2 cache per core, and 18 MB of shared L3 cache. You'll probably get all the next-gen I/O, including PCI-Express Gen 5 (PEG slot), a PCI-Express Gen 4 CPU-attached NVMe slot, and DDR5+DDR4 memory.

Given that the Core i5-11400 is a $190 part, even with a 10-15% price hike, the i5-12400 is expected to be under $220. The only drawbacks here are expected to be locked BClk multiplier, and rather low clock speeds of 4.00 GHz. A user on Chinese social media posted alleged Cinebench R20 results of the i5-12400. It scores 659 points in the single-threaded test, and 4784 points in the multi-threaded test. Wccftech tabulated this against known performance numbers of popular chips, and found that the i5-12400 might end up slightly ahead of the Ryzen 5 5600X, a currently-$300 part. The table also puts out leaked i9-12900K numbers, which indicate why AMD is rushing with "Zen 3+" with 3D Vertical Cache, instead of next-gen "Zen 4."
 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,10 2021 - tech
Should you upgrade to DDR5? - tech
(hx) 10:17 PM CEST - Oct,10 2021 - Post a comment / read (11)
With the launch of DDR5 right around the corner... should you consider upgrading your PCs to use it?

How to fix GPU sag ONCE AND FOR ALL! FREE! - tech
(hx) 12:10 PM CEST - Oct,10 2021 - Post a comment / read (1)
Awesome easy fix!

Windows 10 version 21H2 is coming - tech
(hx) 10:13 AM CEST - Oct,10 2021 - Post a comment / read (3)
While Windows 11 may be making all the headlines lately, it is important to note that Windows 10 version 21H2 is on the horizon as well. Although Microsoft doesn't have a firm release date as of yet, the near-final build made its way to the Release Preview channel for consumers and businesses recently. Version 21H2 is supposed to be a relatively minor upgrade but it is important to note that it is one of the two paths forward for PCs that do not meet Microsoft's requirements for Windows 11. While users may be able to force install Windows 11 after signing a waiver on unsupported hardware, it's possible that they won't receive security updates. As such, it's a relatively safer bet to update to Windows 10 version 21H2 if your PC does not support Windows 11.

Windows 10 version 21H2 is an enablement package, just like version 21H1 was for version 20H2 before it. What this essentially means is that the "new" features available with this update are also present in version 21H1 before it, but in a dormant state. You won't get any actual new features downloaded to your computer. This update will simply light up certain features that are already there. Coming over to what features are being lit up, there's not a whole lot. When Microsoft shared details about the feature update back in July, it outlined a grand total of three "scoped" features that will be enabled with Windows 10 version 21H2:

- Adding WPA3 H2E standards support for enhanced Wi-Fi security
- Windows Hello for Business supports simplified password-less deployment models for achieving a deploy-to-run state within a few minutes
- GPU compute support in the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) and Azure IoT Edge for Linux on Windows (EFLOW) deployments for machine learning and other compute intensive workflows.
 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,09 2021 - tech
Intel's NEW Gaming Laptop is HERE! - tech
(hx) 12:13 AM CEST - Oct,09 2021 - Post a comment / read (1)
Check it out!

Battlefield 2042 | GTX 1050 Ti 4GB - tech
(hx) 12:09 AM CEST - Oct,09 2021 - Post a comment
Game still looks quite good on the mininmum system required GPU.

 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,07 2021 - tech
AMD Radeon Software Adrenalin 21.10.1 released - tech
(hx) 04:32 PM CEST - Oct,07 2021 - Post a comment
AMD has released a brand new driver for its graphics cards. According to the release notes, the AMD Radeon Software Adrenalin 21.10.1 driver is optimized for both Far Cry 6 and Battlefield 2042’s Open Beta. Moreover, this new driver adds support for Windows 11, and improves performance in Naraka: Bladepoint and PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds. According to the red team, this driver improves performance by up to 10% in Far Cry 6 at 1080p Ultra Settings with raytracing on the Radeon RX 6700 XT. It also improves performance by up to 12% at 4K/Medium Settings on the Radeon RX 6800 XT. Additionally, it improves performance by up to 13% at 1440p/Medium Settings with Ray Tracing on the Radeon RX 6600 XT. This driver also packs a number of bug fixes. For instance, it fixes some crashes in Horizon Zero Dawn. It also resolves an issue that could cause the Radeon Software to display higher than actual GPU power consumption values on full load.

AMD Radeon Software Adrenalin 21.10.1 Driver Release Notes

Support For

  • Microsoft® Windows® 11 Operating System
  • Far Cry® 6
    • Up to 10% increase in performance in Far Cry® 6 @ 1080p Ultra Settings with raytracing enabled, using Radeon™ Software Adrenalin 21.10.1 on the 12 GB Radeon™ RX 6700 XT graphics card, versus the previous software driver version 21.9.2.RS-412
    • Up to 12% increase in performance in Far Cry® 6 @ 4K Medium Settings, using Radeon™ Software Adrenalin 21.10.1 on the 16 GB Radeon™ RX 6800 XT graphics card, versus the previous software driver version 21.9.2.RS-413
    • Up to 13% increase in performance in Far Cry® 6 @ 1440p Medium Settings with raytracing enabled, using Radeon™ Software Adrenalin 21.10.1 on the 8 GB Radeon™ RX 6600 XT graphics card, versus the previous software driver version 21.9.2.RS-414
  • Battlefield™ 2042 (Open Beta)
  • Naraka: Bladepoint™
  • PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds™
    • DirectX® 12
      • Up to 11% increase in performance in PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds™ @ 4K Ultra Settings with DX12, using Radeon™ Software Adrenalin 21.10.1 on the 16 GB Radeon™ RX 6800 XT graphics card, versus the previous software driver version 21.9.2.RS-415

Fixed Issues

  • Playing Horizon Zero Dawn™ for an extended period may lead to driver timeouts or game crash on some AMD Graphics products such as Radeon™ RX 6700 XT.
  • Driver timeouts may be experienced while playing a game & streaming a video simultaneously on some AMD Graphics products such as Radeon™ RX 500 Series Graphics.
  • Some users may experience high idle memory clock speed values when two or more monitors are connected to their system.
  • Driver timeouts may be experienced while playing The Medium™ on some AMD Graphics products such as Radeon™ RX 6700 XT.
  • On full GPU load, Radeon™ Software may incorrectly display higher than actual GPU power consumption values.
  • While playing Wreckfest™ or Arma™ 3, image corruption may be experienced when viewing foliage.
Windows 11 review: an overhaul in progress - tech
(hx) 02:37 PM CEST - Oct,07 2021 - Post a comment / read (10)
Microsoft's new Windows 11 operating system is here. It includes a new UI, redesigned Start menu, an overhauled Microsoft Store, and much more. Microsoft likens Windows 11 to a familiar family home that's been renovated, but have the renovations been completed?

 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,06 2021 - tech
This is NOT a Graphics Card - tech
(hx) 12:00 AM CEST - Oct,06 2021 - Post a comment / read (1)
This whole video is the most accurate definition of “overkill”

 Gameguru Mania News - Oct,02 2021 - tech
Windows 11 will hobble gaming performance by default - tech
(hx) 11:13 PM CEST - Oct,02 2021 - Post a comment / read (2)
Despite Microsoft's claims that "if you're a gamer, Windows 11 was made for you" you will need to watch out for future prebuilt PCs with the new OS factory installed. That's because Microsoft is enabling more security features (that requires a PC to have TPM 2.0 enabled) in PCs by default, and one in particular can seriously decrease gaming performance up to 30%. The issue is Virtualization-Based Security (VBS), a setting introduced into Windows 10 which uses hardware and software virtualization to enhance the security of your system. It basically creates an isolated subsystem that helps prevent malware from screwing your PC. As Microsoft exaplains:
Virtualization-based security, or VBS, uses hardware virtualization features to create and isolate a secure region of memory from the normal operating system. Windows can use this "virtual secure mode" to host a number of security solutions, providing them with greatly increased protection from vulnerabilities in the operating system, and preventing the use of malicious exploits which attempt to defeat protections.

One such example security solution is Hypervisor-Enforced Code Integrity (HVCI), commonly referred to as Memory integrity, which uses VBS to significantly strengthen code integrity policy enforcement. Kernel mode code integrity checks all kernel mode drivers and binaries before they're started, and prevents unsigned drivers or system files from being loaded into system memory.

VBS uses the Windows hypervisor to create this virtual secure mode, and to enforce restrictions which protect vital system and operating system resources, or to protect security assets such as authenticated user credentials. With the increased protections offered by VBS, even if malware gains access to the OS kernel the possible exploits can be greatly limited and contained, because the hypervisor can prevent the malware from executing code or accessing platform secrets. UL benchmarks, the creator of popular 3DMark and more, has noted that there can be an impact on the performance, especially related to gaming tasks, due to VBS. It has stated:
In our testing with pre-release builds of Windows 11, a feature called Virtualization-based Security (VBS) causes performance to drop. VBS is enabled by default after a clean install of Windows 11, but not when upgrading from Windows 10. This means the same system can get different benchmark scores depending on how Windows 11 was installed and whether VBS is enabled or not.
So clearly it's a feature mainly intended for enterprise customers to be able to lock down the corporate PCs they drop into their offices and make sure they don't get compromised. And if you're upgrading from Windows 10 to Windows 11 then you don't have to worry about VBS being enabled, unless you were already running an enterprise version of the older OS, that is. The issue comes if you're receiving a machine which has had an OEM build of Windows 11 installed on it. You can quickly check whether it is on or off yourself by hitting the 'Win' key and typing 'MSInfo32', then down at the bottom of the system report it will show whether VBS is enabled.
Intel won't go down without a fight! - tech
(hx) 10:19 AM CEST - Oct,02 2021 - Post a comment
Frankly, I’m just glad to see real competition.

 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,30 2021 - tech
You wouldn't DOWNLOAD a PC CASE?! - tech
(hx) 03:31 PM CEST - Sep,30 2021 - Post a comment
Waiting for the future were we can actually download cars! :D

This free Windows 11 install tool bypasses TPM - tech
(hx) 08:03 AM CEST - Sep,30 2021 - Post a comment
Windows 11 has some very strict security-related measures put in place that require TPM 2.0, Secure Boot, and a CPU officially supported by Microsoft. Microsoft has said it is essential since security is of paramount importance in its new OS. A GitHub developer AveYo has made a new Windows 11 install script for his Universal MediaCreationTool (MCT) wrapper which bypasses these TPM and system requirements checks. The tool itself isn't new, but support for Windows 11 and the skip TPM check feature were added this month. According to the changelog specific for Windows 11, the tool will: 1) Skip TPM Check on media boot via winpeshl.ini file 2) Skip TPM Check on dynamic update. When executed, the script creates the "AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMOrCPU" value under "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMSetupMoSetup" in the registry and sets it to 1 or true. It also deletes the 'appraiserres.dll' file.
 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,28 2021 - tech
Is this Knockoff Alienware Better than a REAL One?? - tech
(hx) 11:25 PM CEST - Sep,28 2021 - Post a comment
Legion 7 beats both laptops overall :D

9 Years of AMD CPUs, Huge Progress from 2012 to 2021 - tech
(hx) 12:10 AM CEST - Sep,28 2021 - Post a comment / read (3)
Yeah, it's amazing to see how much internal ass Lisa Su had to kick to make AMD competitive again.

 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,26 2021 - tech
ULTIMATE PC Repair Challenge: Anthony vs Linus - tech
(hx) 12:30 AM CEST - Sep,26 2021 - Post a comment
Check it out!

 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,24 2021 - tech
Top 5 NEW Surface Duo 2 Features! Game Changing!? - tech
(hx) 10:54 PM CEST - Sep,24 2021 - Post a comment
The Surface Duo was missing a lot of important features that would have made it a much better phone and a more successful device, and lots of people complained and really the device kind of fell flat in a lot of areas. For the Microsoft Surface Duo 2, it seems like Microsoft really listened to criticism and went back to the drawing board and gave people what they wanted. The Surface Duo 2 screen is bigger and has 90hz, the Surface Duo 2 Battery Life is MUCH improved and more battery, the Surface Duo 2 cameras are a huge improvement, the Surface Duo 2 now has 5G, and the Surface Duo 2 now has the Snapdragon 888 to power it into the future!

 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,22 2021 - tech
Microsoft Gives Surface Duo Another Shot - tech
(hx) 10:46 PM CEST - Sep,22 2021 - Post a comment / read (2)
Microsoft today revealed the Surface Duo 2, an updated version of the company's Surface Duo concept that attempts to address the major criticisms of the initial version. The new model has a similar form factor but with larger 5.8-inch OLED displays that curve slightly at the hinge to show notification graphics when closed. The displays support HDR and adaptive refresh up to 90 Hz, and are protected by Corning's premium Gorilla Glass Victus. The improved chipset is based on the Qualcomm Snapdragon 888 with 5G — including mmWave and C-band — and 8 GB LPDDR5 RAM along with 128, 256, or 512 GB of storage. The upgraded camera system has 12 megapixel main and 2x tele cameras with OIS, plus a 16 megapixel wide-angle camera. It also has NFC, Wi-Fi 6, and Bluetooth 5.1. The Duo 2 has excellent support for all 4G and 5G networks in the US. The 4,449 mAh battery supports fast charging at up to 23 watts. The Duo 2 runs Android 11 and is compatible with all Android apps. It has a number of features to configure apps in multiple ways across the two screens for multi-tasking. It comes with a large array of Microsoft apps, including Office, Teams, Outlook, OneNote, OneDrive, and more. Available in Glacier or a new Obsidian color, Surface Duo 2 starts at $1,500 and is available for pre-order today. It ships October 21st.

 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,21 2021 - tech
AMD Releases Radeon Software Adrenalin 21.9.2 Drivers - tech
(hx) 11:04 PM CEST - Sep,21 2021 - Post a comment / read (1)
AMD today released the latest version of their Radeon Software Adrenalin drivers, guaranteeing the best possible experience for AMD GPU users. The latest driver revision introduces support for World War Z: Aftermath, and Amazon's New World MMORPG. Besides that initial game release support, the drivers also deliver an up to 13% performance improvement in Diablo II: Resurrected. This performance increase seems to solve a rendering bottleneck experienced with the RX 6700 XT graphics card at 4K resolution, with Very High settings enabled. AMD also fixed four outstanding issues with this driver release. The CPU Additional Metrics section within the Performance tab should now show up for all users; compatibility error messages when trying to load a previously saved tuning profile should no longer appear; water should no longer spontaneously evaporate in Hitman III for RX 6000 series users; CPU Auto Overclock in Radeon Software should no longer be absent for users sporting an AMD 5000 series CPU alongside an RX 6000 series graphics card. Check after the break for the list of outstanding issues;

The Radeon Software Adrenalin 21.9.2 optional driver can now be downloaded via the Radeon Settings app on Windows or the links on the official release notes page. Official support for Windows 11 (including early builds) landed with the 21.9.1 driver last week, which means this latest release is fully supported for Microsoft's latest operating system as well.
 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,20 2021 - tech
NVIDIA GeForce 472.12 WHQL driver - tech
(hx) 11:53 PM CEST - Sep,20 2021 - Post a comment
NVIDIA has released a new driver for its graphics cards. According to the green team, the NVIDIA GeForce 472.12 WHQL driver is optimized for Far Cry 6, Alan Wake Remastered, Diablo II: Resurrected, Hot Wheels Unleashed, New World, and World War Z: Aftermath. Moreover, the NVIDIA GeForce 472.12 WHQL driver is the first official Windows 11 driver. Not only that, but NVIDIA has announced that 28 indie games, using Unreal Engine 4 and Unity, now support its DLSS tech. As such, there are currently 100 games that support it. As always, this driver also comes with a number of fixes. For instance, it fixes some stuttering that could occur in Watch Dogs Legion with ReBAR. It also resolves some crashes in Battlefield 5 when using HDR.

NVIDIA GeForce 472.12 WHQL Driver Release Notes

Game Ready for Windows 11

This new Game Ready Driver provides support for the official launch of Windows 11, including a variety of new features and functionality to enhance your gaming and productivity. In addition, this new Game Ready Driver offers support for the latest new titles and updates, including Alan Wake Remastered which utilizes NVIDIA DLSS to boost frame rates by up to 2x at 4K resolution. Additionally, this release always provides optimal support for the latest update to Deathloop which introduces NVIDIA Reflex technology, as well as the launch of Diablo II: Resurrected, Far Cry 6, Hot Wheels Unleashed, Industria, New World, and World War Z: Aftermath.

New Indie Games Supporting DLSS

  • Anatomy Of Fear
  • Apocalypse: 2.0 Edition
  • Beyond Enemy Lines 2
  • Bodies of Water VR
  • ChronoTecture: The Eprologue
  • Cions of Vega
  • Death Realm
  • DeepStates [VR]
  • Exit From
  • Fall Balance Ball
  • Frozenheim
  • Helios
  • Höll Space 5D6
  • Last Hope On Earth
  • Loverowind
  • Mortal Online 2
  • Powerslide Legends
  • RAZE 2070
  • Recall
  • REFICUL 666
  • Severed Steel
  • Soul Dossier
  • To Hell With It
  • Twin Stones: The Journey of Bukka
  • Uncrashed: FPV Drone Simulator
  • Unknown Woods
  • Wakamarina Valley, New Zealand
  • Yag
 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,17 2021 - tech
I thought this GPU mod was going to be pointless... - tech
(hx) 03:06 PM CEST - Sep,17 2021 - Post a comment / read (19)
Imagine if nvidia did this from the factory! This shouldn't be a necessary mod!

 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,16 2021 - tech
5 weird motherboards that shouldn't exist - tech
(hx) 10:32 PM CEST - Sep,16 2021 - Post a comment / read (3)
Motherboards are the heart of any PC build, but while we take certain features and form factors for granted, specialty use and just plain bizarre system design means we get a few oddballs...

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