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ggrobot
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Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 53567
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 Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: MoH marketing director explains 'Taliban' removal [29824] |
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Medal of Honor is available now and there may still be people
who have some questions regarding the name change of \'Taliban\' to the
slightly more politically correct \'Opposing Force\' (a term largely used
by U.S. armed forces to describe the enemy) in the game\'s multiplayer.
Now, Danger Close Games (who designe
Read more...
Source: GGMania headlines
GGMania.com - Daily Gaming and Tech news |
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Santiago Matamoros
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Hagia Sofia, Constantinople, Byzantium
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The objection was, kind of from an older generation that doesn’t understand games . . . Really the big thing was playing as a Taliban killing US troops.
. . . Later that soundbyte kinda caught wind and got taken out of context, really.†|
It doesn't take age to understand the objection to playing as those who are murdering innocents and slaughtering your countrymen who fight in defense of your ability to make games.
What context makes playing as Muslim terrorists butchering your fellow citizens acceptable? |
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Csimbi
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 5355
Location: The bright side of the dark side
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | There still is, it seems, a group that’s still a little bit leery of a game taking place around an active conflict. |
Only a fucking idiot can say things like that.
What if the conflict were not active anymore? Would it be all right then?!?
If you ran out of your imagination (you can't make up stories, events, environments that never happened before), probably you should not be making games anymore. Did you ever notice that games that do not revolve around real-world places/events/people tend to be more popular? |
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Koogle
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Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 1362
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Whatever, CIA sponsors and cover ups torture/terrorism anyway. Need a game of Isreali Mossad shit heads who go on missions to orchestrate terror. Hijack boats and shoot up innocent people. Come on game developers start getting in on producing some real game reality! Go on US deployment missions of guarding drug fields, planting controlled demolitions, assassinating good leaders to setting up some corrupt puppet goon into power.
Fire depleted uranium in foreign lands and see how many innocent civilians and children you can kill. Like it really goes down in the middle east.
Not this misleading propaganda garbage game.
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5367
@Santiago Matamoros
Please your ignorance is killing, "What context makes playing as Muslim terrorists butchering your fellow citizens acceptable" lolwut? You got reality upside down?, or you do just look at everything through jaded eyes, stupid brainwashed drone. Go get some actual facts moron.
"murdering innocents and slaughtering your countrymen"
wikileaks alone begs to differ on that garbage claim. Infact statically the US/UK have killed far(actual numbers must be like FUCKING HUGE!) more than even died on that 911 inside job! By deception wars are made!
"who fight in defense of your ability to make games" You'll find the problems are already in the US government corruption. Not some enemy in a cave you stupid muppet. Infact they are wasting billions on wars and driving the economy into a shit hole, I'm sure that really helps game developers dipshit!. While the US government panders to bailing out banking cartels and other corrupt en-devours of corporate/military scumplex, so yeah sure those wars and laws are helping to protect the fools in fear. Also national security is misnomer best used by all establishments to sucker the public into go along with stupid shit that will drive them into debt that can only be paid off in suffering and servitude.
The pentagon don't give no shit, they help orchestrate terrorism and cover it up, on both homeland/foreign soil along with the CIA. US Army servicemen(suckers) are being sent on a ride by those who lead them.
And you support that?, well you're flaming idiot Santiago Matamoros or scumbag reinforcing the pathetic lies that people already foolishly believe. |
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Genoism
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Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| jeez, koogle, if half the stuff you said made sense people might have actually read more than a few lines of your post. |
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Baconnaise
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Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 710
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Honestly koogle I don't doubt that examples of what you say happen or will happen again.
The problem most of us have is we just don't care because it doesn't involve us. I sure as hell don't care what happens to someone thousands of miles away as they are out of sight out of mind. If they delay my fast food or make me pay more for gas I seriously wouldn't mind seeing someone else pay to keep my standard of living higher.
It's been this way for thousands of years. It's not fair but when you're on the top you sure as hell don't want to be at the bottom.
The question is what do you actually do about all the things you rant about? Anything? Nothing? I bet you would change your tune if it directly impacted you in some way  . |
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tiamat
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Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Santiago Matamoros wrote: | It doesn't take age to understand the objection to playing as those who are murdering innocents and slaughtering your countrymen who fight in defense of your ability to make games.
What context makes playing as Muslim terrorists butchering your fellow citizens acceptable? |
How about several Silent Hunter games where you play part of a German fleet killing allied shipping (and that is just one example plucked from the top of my head). It may take place years in the past but i don't see you arguing that is unacceptable. After all Hitler's Germany only slaughtered a few innocents didn't they and those obviously aren't deemed important enough to matter in your eyes. How about the HUNDREDS of games featuring Nazi/Russian enemies, are they asking for whole games to be changed becaue they find it offensive?
Your argument falls apart at the seams in the very first sentence given that you seem to only be able to take ONE side of the argument. All conflicts have 2 sides and you obviously only have opinions on them that were given to you by the westeran mass media corporations. Illegal invasions to capture and protect the oil the west is utterly dependant on but can't afford? Ring any bells?
| Csimbi wrote: | | If you ran out of your imagination (you can't make up stories, events, environments that never happened before), probably you should not be making games anymore. Did you ever notice that games that do not revolve around real-world places/events/people tend to be more popular? |
Obviously discounting several highy popular MOH/COD/MW games then yes i would agree. Again nobody cares about those nasty Germans, Russians, aliens and other non-allied protaganists that you have slaughterd by the million over the course of your gaming history.
I can fully understand anyone in the allied military having an objections, those who have lost loved ones etc. but unless you are one of those you have no point even arguing after decades of killing non-allied people in games. After all you saw those as "just games" regardless of how many old timey folk who actually fought in those conflicts were upset by your complete lack of empathy. ANY game where you kill other humans has EXACTLY the same argument against you which you are conveniently forgetting to try and make your paper-thin point. How many of you ran over/shot dozens of innocents in GTA games? It is ok because it is just a game? You do know they all speak with American accents right??
They key difference here is that for once it is the allied forces as the protagonists and it seems like many people in the west can't abide being labelled as the bad guys. Of course how could WE ever be seen as the bad guys *halo*
I'm white,British and 34 before anybody accuses me of anything by the way. I have several friends in the military, several did tours in Bosnia and 2 people i know are currently on tours in Afghanistan. When you start arguing about the other few hundred thousand games in history that involve killing people from whatever country or walk of life then i will conceded the point. Until then you are just griping because the shoe is on the other foot for a change and you don't like it. Your selectively-picked argument is sickening. |
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Tom
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Posts: 4289
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Csimbi wrote: |
What if the conflict were not active anymore? Would it be all right then?!? |
Seems to be fine for games based on WWI, WWII (millions of Jews killed, far cry from the death count of terrorist actions) and the Vietnam war  |
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Csimbi
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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Location: The bright side of the dark side
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom wrote: | | Csimbi wrote: |
What if the conflict were not active anymore? Would it be all right then?!? |
Seems to be fine for games based on WWI, WWII (millions of Jews killed, far cry from the death count of terrorist actions) and the Vietnam war |
A sad fact, indeed. |
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Koogle
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Posts: 1362
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Actually all the examples I mentioned have and do this day are happening. They will happen again because rarely nothing is ever done about it.
http://www.rys2sense.com/drop/dvdwd.wmv
"The question is what do you actually do about all the things you rant about?"
Absolutely nothing 
The only thing most people can do, expose it until more people want to take action. Many don't question what they are officially told and more importantly not told. |
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Santiago Matamoros
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Hagia Sofia, Constantinople, Byzantium
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Koogle wrote: | Whatever, CIA sponsors and cover ups torture/terrorism anyway. Need a game of Isreali Mossad shit heads who go on missions to orchestrate terror
. . .
9/11 was an inside job
. . .
And you support that?, well you're flaming idiot Santiago Matamoros or scumbag reinforcing the pathetic lies that people already foolishly believe. |
It's clear that you hate Jews, Americans, and basic logic.
Even IF the American and Israeli governments were guilty of what you attribute to them, that doesn't mean that jihad is not being waged against us.
If 9/11 was an inside job, then why did UBL take credit for it? Why didn't he say in one of his videos-from-a-cave, "Hey! Wait a minute! Bush did it!"?
Take a deep breath, koogle. 9/11 happened and Muslims have carried out nearly 20,000 documented jihad attacks around the world since 9/11 alone, since Muhammad commanded his faithful to "kill the pagans wherever you find them" (Qur'an 9:5).
No one who denies or ignores those facts should be calling anyone "shit head," "flaming idiot," "scumbag," "pathetic," or "foolish." |
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Santiago Matamoros
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Hagia Sofia, Constantinople, Byzantium
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| tiamat wrote: | | Santiago Matamoros wrote: | It doesn't take age to understand the objection to playing as those who are murdering innocents and slaughtering your countrymen who fight in defense of your ability to make games.
What context makes playing as Muslim terrorists butchering your fellow citizens acceptable? |
How about several Silent Hunter games where you play part of a German fleet killing allied shipping (and that is just one example plucked from the top of my head). It may take place years in the past but i don't see you arguing that is unacceptable. After all Hitler's Germany only slaughtered a few innocents didn't they and those obviously aren't deemed important enough to matter in your eyes. How about the HUNDREDS of games featuring Nazi/Russian enemies, are they asking for whole games to be changed becaue they find it offensive?
Your argument falls apart at the seams in the very first sentence given that you seem to only be able to take ONE side of the argument. All conflicts have 2 sides and you obviously only have opinions on them that were given to you by the westeran mass media corporations. Illegal invasions to capture and protect the oil the west is utterly dependant on but can't afford? Ring any bells? |
Replies ought to have something to do with the original post.
My argument is that it's immoral to play as animals slaughtering those defending your Life and Liberty. In what way can that position ever "fall flat"?
Here's an analogy for the obdurate: Monsters gang-rape your daughter, and some company creates a game where players can gang-rape your daughter. Will you be the first in line to play, or will you be "duped" by "westeran [sic] media" and oppose it?
In your mind, the rapist and his victim are morally-equal. In your mind, Adolf Hitler was as justified as his victims. Just because a conflict has two sides doesn't mean that the two sides are morally-equivalent.
If you were to ask what I thought about playing as Nazis -- in what FPS do you play as Nazis, anyway? -- I'd tell you that I wouldn't, especially if it were a first-person shooter and this were 1943. And I'd be considerate of the feelings of survivors of that war and their posterity.
Get your facts straight: Israel is at war against its Muslim neighbors waging jihad against it (read the Hamas Charter; no one in the mainstream media has). And we went into Iraq and Afghanistan because of our late and still-incomplete discovery of the jihad against us.
Considering the fact that the mainstream media not only censors itself in defense of Islam and jihad, but actually obfuscates for it, it is obvious you've been consuming its "news" vigorously. |
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Koogle
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Posts: 1362
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:23 am Post subject: |
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@Santiago Matamoros Go back to sleep you arrogant racist piece of shit, you haven't a clue nor any signs of basic logic. Nothing more than a prejudice 'shit head' who wants to distort already known lies.
Zionism is racism, many jewish people throughout the world want nothing to do with it and are against what it is really about. It follows the Talmud which going by your stupid example of Quran is nothing more more Zionist lies, for a start the Quran is based on TALMUD. Guess which one Jewish Zionists go by? Muslims are the painted enemy and are being used by Western governments to gain more social oppression over their populace.
Anyway seeing as you wanted to bring in religion to this...
Do you want some examples of the Talmud
Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile/goyim/ ignorant dumb fuck) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.
Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep. (cough Palestine true Semites)
Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile. (Lamestream media  )
I'm not even going to bother going on, there is so much that explains a lot about the mentality of a Zionist. And unfortunately these criminals are in control of American media, government and LAWS! No wonder so many are dumb to what is really going on! Your HATE of Muslims is very telling of what kind of person you are, not to mention you use LIES and fabricated bullshit to make weak and pathetic points. AlQaeda is part of the CIA front group for organized terror both home and foreign! That is not even getting into the Isreali connection of sadistic MOSSAD group and their own daily war crimes.
www.jewsagainstzionism.com
"If 9/11 was an inside job, then why did UBL take credit for it? Why didn't he say in one of his videos-from-a-cave, "Hey! Wait a minute! Bush did it!"? "
Wow that is stupid, yes lets just ignore the shit loads of evidence, with official lies wide enough to sink a titanic! And disregard the obvious connections and go by some faked UBL cave videos  you are a fucking idiot! do even know how faked those videos are (I mean aside from Isreali Zionists preteding to be Muslims, and the ever changing faces was it not obvious enough? they were debunked hours after release) Do you even know UBL is dead? and has been for over 9years! dipshit I suggest you go get some facts, instead of using LIES and psyop coverup garbage.
Here former head ex FBI Ted Gunderson, before the FBI became as corrupt and incompotent as it today reveals just some of the many coverups the FBI/CIA Washington government +(Pentagon) is involved in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHbJzproj0
The CIA/Homeland Security is above both and is even more corrupt than most Americans would even believe. It is funnily the biggest reason why Holywood makes so many films depicting the CIA as a largely good organization(pff) that only ever has a few bad apples in it, I could list a dozen movies released this year doing exactly that! (It is nothing more than to keep the goyim in disbelief of exactly how they are being lied to, and to ignore the glaringly obvious) The biggest deception on American people (and the world) is that the CIA has been caught red handed in so so many many many cases of war crimes, corruption, murder, torture, drug drafficking, sex slavery, blackmail and meddling in international foreign affairs etc, it is corrupt to the CORE, and it is their to do the bidding and coverup for those in control of it.
"No one who denies or ignores those facts should be calling anyone "shit head," "flaming idiot," "scumbag," "pathetic," or "foolish.""
You are everyone one of those names and more, because you are ignorant of the facts, or worse deliberately distorting the truth with more lies!
http://www.rys2sense.com/drop/dvdwd.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YePhhbLJpGM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18TRLG8Gwqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ55zegkV6Q
p.s Santiago Matamoros "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Which God is that? Seeing as you are openly supporting exactly that tyranny of government extremism via the hocus pocus academy of lawyer judge policretins on a payrole to fund more corruption and modern day slavery. Which is happening in America/Europe, also interesting Mr shillbag is the date you signed upto this forum. How very noticeable you have come in to prop up the lies, GUILTY much scumbag? I suggest you piss off from whence you came! You are the racist. |
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Koogle
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Posts: 1362
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:00 am Post subject: |
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" And we went into Iraq and Afghanistan because of our late and still-incomplete discovery of the jihad against us. "
lol the endless wars for the Military Industrial scumComplex and various particular corporate contractors to create a black hole for money to fund war/weapons and destruction. Plundering a foreign countries based on lies and perhaps rebuilding using your Tax money for over budgeted money sink holes to build THEIR extended business operations. Nothing to do with Jihad, (that is just the distraction for the media to use, also funded by US taxpayer and blackmarket trading of drugs).
Where will the mysterious bogey man of organized and FUNDED terrorists go hiding next, I guess where ever they are needed
Wake up fools, debt is being used to drive economies into civil serfdom, while banks and countless other globalist crooks involved the scam from various industries are playing the game and benefiting greatly!. Funnily Muslim people aren't in on benefiting from any of it, yet the establishments of USA (United Slaves of AIPAC !) /British/Europe and Israel all have something to gain from the wars, laws and media hype of false flag orchestrated problems>reaction>solution fear distractions created from it to. All to justify the real criminals injustice of liberties traded in for FALSE security and wars!!! Including legalized spying! and other hypocritical lawless activities they're sliding into place to control society as their activities and crimes are exposed. |
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Santiago Matamoros
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Hagia Sofia, Constantinople, Byzantium
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Koogle wrote: | | you arrogant racist piece of shit |
Speaking of "arrogant."
Clearly, you know fecal matter, intimately. Equally clear is the fact that you don't understand jihad or shari'a.
So, what "race" is Islam?
| Quote: | | Nothing more than a prejudice 'shit head' who wants to distort already known lies. |
Really? What did I "prejudice"? Where, specifically, have I lied? Have you read the Hamas Charter yet? Why not?
Here are your innocent Muslims in their own words:
| Quote: | "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims."
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up."
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."
"Allah is its [Hamas'] goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief." |
So, no, it's not the Jews, it's jihad.
How long have you been a raving anti-Semite, Koog?
| Quote: | | It follows the Talmud which going by your stupid example of Quran is nothing more more Zionist lies, for a start the Quran is based on TALMUD. |
So, you're saying that Muhammad was a Jew? Or are you saying that he plagiarized their texts? (What are you, racist?) If that's so, then why did he preach unremitting warfare against all non-Muslims, but reserve a special level of hate for Jews specifically? You're an expert on Middle Eastern religions. Tell us, please.
| Quote: | | Muslims are the painted enemy and are being used by Western governments to gain more social oppression over their populace. |
Really? So, Western governments force Muslims to rape babies in Beslan (look it up), behead Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia (look it up), rape and slice off the breasts of Christians in Sudan (look it up), and fly planes into buildings (you may have heard of that one)?
What does it say about you that you extenuate atrocities committed by Muslims in obedience to Allah and in emulation of Muhammad's example?
You can say that Muslims are "the painted enemy," but that's only true because the brush is in their hands, and they're creating self-portraits, to the tune of nearly 20,000 jihad attacks since 9/11 alone.
| Quote: | | Anyway seeing as you wanted to bring in religion to this... |
I didn't bring religion into this discussion. You did, when you started foaming at the mouth over 9/11. (Not to mention that Muslims "bring in religion to this" every time they rape or butcher someone to shouts of "Allahu akbar!")
| Quote: | | Do you want some examples of the Talmud |
False moral equivalence. You can do better than that.
Who considers Talmud the word of a god? Even if someone did, where does it command violence against all who refuse to convert or submit as slaves? Even if it did, where are Jews trying to detonate their underwear in order to maim and murder Gentiles?
Even if all that you wish were true, it doesn't change the fact that Muhammad and his deity command the faithful to use any means necessary -- including, but not limited to, violence -- in order to convert, subjugate, or kill all non-Muslims.
At best, you're admitting that "Jews are just as bad," which is an admission that Muslims are "bad." (Which is not my argument. Though it is necessary to address the behavior and attitudes of Muslims who wage or support jihad, the issue is Islam itself, not individual believers. There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate.)
| Quote: | | What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep. (cough Palestine true Semites) |
I realize facts aren't important to you, but no Jew "stole 'Palestine.'" It was won fair-and-square by the free world from Islam, which stole it centuries earlier.
| Quote: | | the mentality of a Zionist. And unfortunately these criminals are in control of American media, government and LAWS! |
So, Muslims blow up non-Muslims because the Jews are "criminals"? Brilliant.
| Quote: | | Your HATE of Muslims |
Stating facts is not "hate."
| Quote: | | you use LIES and fabricated bullshit to make weak and pathetic points |
So, jihad doesn't exist, shari'a is good, and Hamas isn't genocidally anti-Semitic?
Well done, Koog!
| Quote: | | AlQaeda is part of the CIA front group for organized terror both home and foreign! That is not even getting into the Isreali connection of sadistic MOSSAD group and their own daily war crimes. |
If that's true, then why are they allowing you to post it? Better watch your back! The JEWS will get you!
| Quote: | "If 9/11 was an inside job, then why did UBL take credit for it? Why didn't he say in one of his videos-from-a-cave, "Hey! Wait a minute! Bush did it!"? "
Wow that is stupid, yes lets just ignore the shit loads of evidence, with official lies wide enough to sink a titanic! And disregard the obvious connections and go by some faked UBL cave videos |
Who told you that, the CIA? Mossad? Al Qaeda?
| Quote: | | I suggest you go get some facts, instead of using LIES and psyop coverup garbage. |
So, my secret's out. I'm an operative for Mossad. You know what that means . . . .
| Quote: | | It is nothing more than to keep the goyim in disbelief of exactly how they are being lied to, and to ignore the glaringly obvious) |
So, you're a paranoid and delusional anti-Semite who'd rather libel Jews than defend Western Civilization against an ancient and existential threat.
And my pointing out the questionable morality of creating and playing games in which you slaughter your nation's heroes makes me "extreme," a "shill," "guilty," "scum," and "racist."
You must be proud.
| Quote: | | also interesting Mr shillbag is the date you signed upto this forum. |
(Fishing for an ad hominem?)
Yes, you've found me out! Imagine that! I signed up to post a comment on an article . . . after the article was published! Curses! Will those evil Jews stop at nothing to undermine us Gentiles?
Take your meds, Koogle. And do your homework:
| Quote: | "Allah's Apostle said, 'The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him"'" (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177).
". . . We were (sitting) in the mosque when the Messenger of Allah . . . came to us and said: (Let us) go to the Jews. We went out with him until we came to them. The Messenger of Allah . . . stood up and called out to them (saying): O ye assembly of Jews, accept Islam (and) you will be safe.
[. . .]
"he killed their men, and distributed their women, children and properties among the Muslims, except that some of them had joined the Messenger of Allah . . . who granted them security. They embraced Islam. The Messenger of Allah . . . turned out all the Jews of Medlina. Banu Qainuqa' (the tribe of 'Abdullah b. Salim) and the Jews of Banu Haritha and every other Jew who was in Medina.
[. . .]
"It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah . . . say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim" (Muslim Book 19, Number 4363-4366)."
"the Messenger of Allah . . . would say: 'Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war. . . . When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. . . . Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. . . . If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them . . .'" (Muslim Book 19, Number 4294).
"fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) . . . " (Qur’an 9:5).
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29).
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter . . . " (Qur'an 5:33).
Ibn Kathir says of this verse: "'Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil." So, Muhammad requires execution, crucifixion, or cutting off hands and feet from opposite sides for "disbelief."
"Allah's Apostle said: 'I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle . . . '" (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24).
"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise" (Qur'an 8:67).
"Allah’s Apostle said, '. . . I have been made victorious with terror . . .'" (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220). |
(All quotations taken from Muslim sources.
And no, Jefferson was not referring to Allah. Just as today, when all a non-Muslim really needs to know about Islam he learned on 9/11, so in Thomas' day, all an American diplomat needed to know about Islam he learned from the Barbary Pirates. Look it up.) |
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