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gx-x
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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@Tom:
You have a bottleneck somewhere, idk, If you look at reviews you see that there is plenty more fps on gtx 960 compared to the low end cards that are all faster than gtx560 at this point. I had 560Ti and I replaced it with 650Ti Boost and 650Ti was faster. Now I don't know about BF, that thing was always capped at 60fps with occasional drops so if that is the only thing you play you only need a card that will cap the fps in that game and you are done, no need to experiment.
But I can tell you one thing: 560Ti couldn't run Madashi video renderer at the settings that gtx 960 can, not even close. I know people usually don't use MadVR but I do so it's important to me as much as game framerate...What can I say, I am hooked. 
PS. FYI: memory speed play little to no role in game performance. You could set Z68 to work with 2000Mhz memory but 1333 CL9 would probably work faster. When I say faster I mean you would gain like 1fps on min fps and 2fps on average fps.
Try rising the multiplier on your CPU by 5. It should work without fiddling with voltages, stock voltage (ie: AUTO) is usually overvolting the CPU by a lot so you are probably good to go up to 4.4GHz with it. You'll open some headroom for the GPU and probably gain as much fps as the % you overclocked the CPU. |
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Tom
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Joined: 07 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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@gx-x Perhaps...I'll have to check things out. I have wanted to replace the mobo but I've been too f'ing lazy.
@genoism, gx-x. Dude, that's what devs do today, they make excuses to substantiate the market they are F'ing over and their over inflated bank accounts. Half of them are hacks who don't even have a proper education. Dev's these days lie like 10x more to the public than a fucking politician does. Spread misinformation, do interviews and lie out their asses. It's about making money. Look at activision and COD, EA and BF. It's about money not making a quality game. My respect goes to Indie devs not these big fat bloated companies that make money hand over fist with the same code base over and over again. |
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Tom
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gx-x
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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no need to change perfectly good mobo Tom. I am on Z68 with an i5, there's nothing wrong with it. While the bus on 960 is narrower than on 560Ti, memory speed and memory itself is faster and making up for it (compared to 560Ti) and surpassing it. I mean, 960 is somewhere on par (game to game, it depends) with 7970/280x and difference between my former 560Ti and this 280x is...huge.
Maybe BF increased details when it detected gtx 960 giving you better graphics fidelity (maybe not noticeable) with similar fps? I don't know but your system should run nicely, you have decent hardware. |
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Genoism
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Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| gx-x wrote: | | Genoism wrote: | | Tom wrote: | | gx-x wrote: | Tom, 30 fps is not smooth compared to 60, you can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. It's so obvious that once the FPS drops from 60 to 30 in game you feel like it dropped to 10.
| Quote: | | Only a fucking [censored] will buy a 950. It isn't worth the measly savings. Buy a 960 or 970. If they are too expensive, wait for a sale. |
With this I sort of agree. 150$ for gtx950? It's a joke. People were looking for 950 to replace 750Ti for their living room htpc's. They got a dual slot dual cooler "monster" that is not what they were looking for.
Performance wise, buy a used card that is still covered by warranty for 150$ and you will be getting something like gtx960 or AMD 270x almost brand new. I saw r9 285's going for as low as ~130$ (no warranty) and ~160 with 1 year warranty...
gtx970 is overpriced as shit. |
It's not that it's just overpriced, it's $150 and when you realize it's a hunk of shit, that's just $150 you paid you'll never get back. Add that to the cost of the new card you buy.. Surprise surprise you are over $400. Gee that should help Nvidia just fine. Sorry I don't buy someones used card with absolutely no idea what they've done to it. I'll never waste my money on a used video card. Ever. Yes, 970 and up is all overpriced man. It's gouging. You are paying for tech invented years ago that sat on a fucking shelf while Nvidia and ATI bled their even older tech. Nvidia and AMD aren't out for PC gaming, they are out to make as much money off fools as they can. They can always rely on some shit review site to try and justify buying their overpriced video cards. They hurt PC gaming, they don't help it.
I bought a 960, it cost me $150. It replaced my 560 which is now in one of my HTPC's. Worst purchase I ever made. I paid the price because I didn't care to read a million reviews and tally and evaluate the BS in the reviews. It was on sale and I said, F it, gotta be better than my 560. And it really isn't. I tried to sell it and I get lowballed all over the place. Yippe I can sell it for $100, lose $50 + taxes and use that $100 towards a new card. 2 months old and purchased on sale and they want it for $100. Haha! F it, for now I play Med-Hi quality with stuff turned off. I'll wait for a sale, put the 960 in another one of my PC's eventually. When a game warrants a new card.
If prices don't come down, I'll buy an Xbone. As it is, games are so stupidly expensive along with those fucking lame websites trying to reason and explain why they are high.. Oh games have been cheap for a long time and unrealistically priced. Ya, and they ripped away the box, the media, the manuals and you charge $80 for a game and I download it on my internet I also pay for. Go f yourself. Anyone that wants to say a game is worth $80+ is a fucking [censored]. My game buy has gone down so much, I barely remember the last time I bought a game. Battlefront will probably be the next game and what are they charging? Oh $70+. |
Dude you are unrealistically stupid or you've poorly thought out your argument.
I'm a developer so let me tell you the other side of the story if it never dawned on you.
People expect today's games to have better graphics then yesterdays game for the same price. It takes a stupid amount of time to make it look better, and better, and better. And for the same price? Are you retarded?
What about inflation bro? You know what that is? Today $60 is not worth the same as it was 10 years ago. Developers would like you know, to get raises. You know, like in every other industry. So that they could do stuff like PAY THEIR BILLS.
Everyone always thinks it's about corporate greed, sometimes it really is, most of the time it's not. Making better games costs more money, inflation rises, people want raises. Use your fucking head. |
Sorry man but you argument isn't truthful. You have way better tools at your disposal today. Engines like UE3/4 , Cryengine etc. They have a lot of assets already build into them so level designers can jump to work from day one. Computers are faster, coding is streamlined etc. I'd bet my ballz that it is easier for a coder to make a game today than it was 10 years ago so yea, you are expect to make a better looking game within a same timeframe. You are payed as much as you would be 10 years ago, if not more, and user base for sales is larger than it was 10 years ago, and publishers save on boxes and whatnot.
Without knowing a damn thing about using UE3 engine, I got my hands on student version and fiddled around a bit and created some stuff that actually works. And I am a graphics designer, a photoshop and illustrator with zero affinity and skills in coding.
Either today's coders are far less educated/skilled than coders were 15 years ago (yes, not everyone is John Carmack, I know that), or they are just using the wrong tools (or even worse, lazy).
When I look at some AAA titles out there that work good, look good, and compare them with some others that cost more, don't look as good, don't work at all (as in, they are released but they are really a mess not even worthy of the name "alpha"), I wonder how come?
Higher price tag is not justified at all. The Witcher was never 80$ and was always better (technologically) than anything else out there. Same goes for Crysis.
Now if you want to try and tell me that Frostbyte dudes that recycle assets and models and pretty much everything for years, deserve 80$ for the same game they already sold me last year - well, cool, but I say they can shove it up their asses. |
Better tools doesn't really help you make better graphics. Sure a render engine will allow you to HAVE better graphics, but you have to put in the effort to MAKE it look better.
http://www.bitrebels.com/entertainment/video-games-then-and-now-a-mind-twisting-comparison/ |
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Genoism
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Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom wrote: | @gx-x Perhaps...I'll have to check things out. I have wanted to replace the mobo but I've been too f'ing lazy.
@genoism, gx-x. Dude, that's what devs do today, they make excuses to substantiate the market they are F'ing over and their over inflated bank accounts. Half of them are hacks who don't even have a proper education. Dev's these days lie like 10x more to the public than a fucking politician does. Spread misinformation, do interviews and lie out their asses. It's about making money. Look at activision and COD, EA and BF. It's about money not making a quality game. My respect goes to Indie devs not these big fat bloated companies that make money hand over fist with the same code base over and over again. |
I am an indie dev, and i know i would never be able to make the same kind of quality that a AAA+ game can. |
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gx-x
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2677
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| Genoism wrote: | | Tom wrote: | @gx-x Perhaps...I'll have to check things out. I have wanted to replace the mobo but I've been too f'ing lazy.
@genoism, gx-x. Dude, that's what devs do today, they make excuses to substantiate the market they are F'ing over and their over inflated bank accounts. Half of them are hacks who don't even have a proper education. Dev's these days lie like 10x more to the public than a fucking politician does. Spread misinformation, do interviews and lie out their asses. It's about making money. Look at activision and COD, EA and BF. It's about money not making a quality game. My respect goes to Indie devs not these big fat bloated companies that make money hand over fist with the same code base over and over again. |
I am an indie dev, and i know i would never be able to make the same kind of quality that a AAA+ game can. |
How about you take a look at Limit Theory for instance. One man indie army. Sure, he had some issues lately but not with coding. One man is making (already made) best space sim ever. One man. With 150K$.
Secondly, coders don't make graphics, designers do. Main problem with indie devs is they try to do everything and if I learned anything in my life, it is that coders can't design. They have no "feel" for taste. So if I give you a good 4K texture with all needed parts, (specular, displacement, paralax etc) all you need to do is apply it, and it easier than it was 10 years ago.
Modelers do the same, they give you models with more polygons that can now be rendered and easily imported. They will also animate them, give you bones etc.
Excuse me but your coding job also got easier, like I said, more streamlined. We also have affordable 3D scanners, hi-res cameras etc. The amount of time remains the same, it's just that I, as a designer of, say, textures, don't have to worry about if the tile is going to be 2kb or 20kb and I can put a lot into 18KB more, or nothing at all, I can just be lazy.
I guess that is my point. When I modeled weapons for Quake 2 I was limited to 2K polygons, I would have to take my model and nerf it. Today, I don't need to. A modeler that made first gears of war models had hi poly count models to start with and had to reduce poly count, now he doesn't have to.
There is LESS things to do today, and MORE tools to do it.
It's actually coders that mess things up today.
Of course you can't make AAA game as indie dev, you need a plan and a team. You can't work alone and make a good product. No one is expecting you to.
And by the way, save for few titles, the AAA bar is set pretty low at the moment.
Indie devs rarely make a good game these days because they lack direction. They have a vision of the final product but not the whole direction. They need artwork, they need much more than just code code code. Of course you can't compete with 20 2D artists working with 20 3d artists to create assets and then telling to 20 coders how those things should work.
But you don't need that many people. That bunch is inefficient, and I stand by that.
Another example: Path Of Exile versus Diablo 3. GGG (POE) didn't even have a kickstarter back then, they smoke Blizzard out of the water. There is like 10 of them now, 4 of them when they started. But they were a good team, good balance, good direction. In the end, coders responsible for the engine are the worst. But hey, game lives and they are making money. |
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Tom
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Indie should be more respected than big gouging companies like EA.
Inflation is just an excuse for big bloated software companies to make more money. They don't make better games. They make the same shit over and over again. Pro's at suckering n00bs to keep buying the same shit over and over again for a stupid price tag. Indie don't ask usually for such costs and their games are usually pretty good. I rather support a starting dev then some fat cat software company.
@gx-x
My Mushkin sucks it seems. I thought they were better I'm looking at Ripjaws. USB3 support sucks with my case I am using, most of what I hate of this mobo. I hate reaching behind my pc. It's been a reliable mobo. |
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gx-x
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2677
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| Tom wrote: | Indie should be more respected than big gouging companies like EA.
Inflation is just an excuse for big bloated software companies to make more money. They don't make better games. They make the same shit over and over again. Pro's at suckering n00bs to keep buying the same shit over and over again for a stupid price tag. Indie don't ask usually for such costs and their games are usually pretty good. I rather support a starting dev then some fat cat software company.
@gx-x
My Mushkin sucks it seems. I thought they were better I'm looking at Ripjaws. USB3 support sucks with my case I am using, most of what I hate of this mobo. I hate reaching behind my pc. It's been a reliable mobo. |
I told you, mobo is fine, you can buy 200000$ worth of ram and it wont make a difference, trust me. Try to maintain the settings you have now (in BF) and put 560 in instead of 960 and you will see that it is not 9 fps difference, I am guessing, and betting, game detected 960 and upped AA, textures and stuff like that. There is no way that there would be so little difference between 560 and 960, it's impossible!
It would be possible if you were using athlonXP I guess... |
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Tom
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| gx-x wrote: | | Tom wrote: | Indie should be more respected than big gouging companies like EA.
Inflation is just an excuse for big bloated software companies to make more money. They don't make better games. They make the same shit over and over again. Pro's at suckering n00bs to keep buying the same shit over and over again for a stupid price tag. Indie don't ask usually for such costs and their games are usually pretty good. I rather support a starting dev then some fat cat software company.
@gx-x
My Mushkin sucks it seems. I thought they were better I'm looking at Ripjaws. USB3 support sucks with my case I am using, most of what I hate of this mobo. I hate reaching behind my pc. It's been a reliable mobo. |
I told you, mobo is fine, you can buy 200000$ worth of ram and it wont make a difference, trust me. Try to maintain the settings you have now (in BF) and put 560 in instead of 960 and you will see that it is not 9 fps difference, I am guessing, and betting, game detected 960 and upped AA, textures and stuff like that. There is no way that there would be so little difference between 560 and 960, it's impossible!
It would be possible if you were using athlonXP I guess... |
I know the mobo is good, I don't plan to replace it. My ram isn't that bad either, but I could squeeze a little more out of the bus. I'll check what my fps are. I'll check these games again, you could be right. Maybe reset. Or that Nvidia Experience BS overriding things.
~pc vs console
My point was that a $200 card won't cut it. Eventually if you are going to be serious PC gaming, you want a $400 card (and that is retarded). A console is $400. I assure you a lot of people say, f that, I'm getting a console. People don't want to be arsed swapping out video cards, they rather replace a console. 60FPS means nothing and/or will soon. Keyb/mouse excuse is going to be pointless soon enough. If MS offered dual boot on Xbone to Win10. I'm sorry but most looking for a PC upgrade will likely equate a console to being sufficient. A market that Sony retards threw away. PC gaming is for real enthusiasts has been and will continue to be, as long as you have a bigger wallet. If you want max quality and performance. Unfortunately that market is small and shrinking because people like me are getting fed-up of being ripped off for small gain.
~
I'm done, Indie vs Fat-Cat conversation. gx-x raises good points. EA and Activision don't make spectacular games, they make games with good marketing budgets. Their games are shit quality and really nothing new. BF and COD perfect examples. |
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Thudo
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Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 395
Location: North Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:55 am Post subject: |
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Yer never gonna convince anyone to give up consoles over a PC for the stated reasons I've given in that other thread where I laid it all out in point-form. However, there is one other reason bad reason to have a console: you cannot mod it to run games to which you don't, ahemm, own. This is a HUGE negative especially since the library available online is immense and its NOT hard to find it if you know where to look. This alone will save thousands per year in costs, but, that's for those whom are diligent because, oh, I learned high-end apps like Photoshop and Sound Forge because I could "afford to"..  Best you'll get on Xbone and PS4 are ghey-arse trialware BS because they're no where close to being broken. Gawd damn sad really as we're, what, 2-3 years in and still nada? Lammmeeeeee.. Meanwhile.. [looks to PC and massively ever-growing lib per month of content]..
PS.. as for the money aspect.. I meant REAL WORKFLOW APPS that can save or make you money.. not kindergarden BS thank you! Stuff you can learn by running it with tuts online unlocked then take it, oh, into the REAL BUSINESS WORLD which can command some serious coin. Jeezz.. I wonder whose done that for a decade+? Hmmm..  |
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El_Coyote
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Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 611
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Who gives a shit anyway.
Why would you waste time trying to convert people from one platform to another?
There is nothing in it for you, other than trying to justify your own choices. |
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