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id Software: PC Gaming is Not Dying - briefly|
| (hx) 06:41 PM CEST - Aug,15 2010 | Todd Hollenshead and Tim Willits from id Software told IGN they believe PC gaming is not dying:
Studio President Todd Hollenshead recently told IGN he believes that given the popularity of Blizzard's World of Warcraft, along with PC technology significantly outpacing the hardware found in home consoles, PC gaming will continue to be a force in the industry.
"Because of the great games you have coming out on the consoles, and for a period of time, the consoles were pretty competitive technically with the PC, it has receded in prominence," Hollenshead admitted during QuakeCon.
"It's probably getting back to the point right now where technically on the PCs you're going to be able to start doing more and more things that you can't do on the consoles."
"It's also hard to say PC gaming is dying when the biggest game franchise, World of Warcraft, is a PC game."
Hollenshead later said that even though PC games aren't as prominent at retail stores anymore doesn't necessarily mean the platform is going away anytime soon. He believes PC gaming's current struggles are only temporary.
"If it's just boxed games at retail, it's certainly in third place behind the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 right now, but that doesn't mean it's doomed to continue to recede or can't come back," he said.
"These things happen over time and every time consoles come out, people proclaim the death of PC and then it may struggle for awhile and have its issues, but it tends to be resilient."
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last 10 comments: | Tom | (08:41 PM CEST - Aug,15 2010 ) | Sorry but Todd is an idiot. Of course he will say anything as his games coming for PC are on the line..
Just because people are playing WC doesn't mean they have systems capable of handling the latest games, nor does it mean that's a market that will buy everything coming out. C'mon WC is no amazing technical prowess of features either. Anybody with a hunk of shit computer can play it.
These things happen over time.. He says that like this receding in PC has happened a few times. What a load of bullshit. It's happened once and it's been a continual downward spiral for PC and the popularity of PC. Companies like nvidia and stuff still sit there and gouge people on video cards. When you have a "video card" that costs more than a fucking console bundle, to me that is #1 issue. Any consumer who wants to allow their kids to game is not going to fork out a few thousand dollars for a PC to game with and then keep investing $400 or more into a video card.
Now, all this could change if nvidia and ati got their thumbs out of their greedy assholes and lowered, period, their video card prices. $100 for low-mid range, $200 for high end. THAT, to me is reasonable. $400-$500, fuck off. I still refuse to spend a dime over $300 and I think I am retarded to spend that much.
Let's not even get into the game protection bs either.. A whole other turn off for people. |
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| Sabot | (04:08 PM CEST - Aug,16 2010 ) | Todd have you looked in the shops lately? As in ALL computer game shops.
If it aint dying then why the fuck CAN'T you buy anything other than top 10 -if you're lucky- and carousels full of 4.99 or buy two get the third free, titles from 5+years ago????
Also, whilst we're on the matter of sales. Why is it that PC games are ALWAYS 10-20 bucks CHEAPER that console games, yet CAN'T shift a tenth of what consoles do?
As Tom has said, and i've said in the past, you need to buy a HUGELY over-rated graphics card and multicore CPU that STILL has fits trying to keep a game from going +100 to sub double digit fps.
Of course it then gets several years of patches and an OS that dies with that machine.
There's only one place that the PC will NEVER be topped and that's its back catalogue of XP titles -especialy RPG/RTS.
It's xmas buying some absolute crackers that run brilliantly (and look shit hot on XP)
I just want to buy and play; titles like Mass Effect 1/2.
The console has some brill titles, like Fallout3 GoTY,Dragons Age Origins CE, Dragons Age 2, Fallout: New Vegas.
What daft shit head Todd forgets, is that it's NOT about graphics. If it was do you think the PS2,Wii,DS or PSP would still be selling by the bucket load? The guy is a plonker and can't see outside the box.
As long as they make unique titles for console and from PC i'll keep buying. It's as SIMPLE as that Todd.
Nothing to do with keeping you and M$ in shares with ATI/nVidia is it?
Next it will be, 'Buy the Collectors Edition of Half Life 3 and get a FREE coupon for a graphics card'
No Todd, PC games aren't dying. Just stuck in a vacuum with the air slowly running out and people like you refusing to accept it.
Btw, Todd. Since when does ONE PC title (WoW) justify the whole PC games industry as a whole? Does that mean that the likes of EA,Eidos,Bethesda etc,etc,etc,etc get a slice of WoW sales?? You're an utter idiot to pick ONE title and think that it represents the WHOLE PC games industry..... :roll:
Have an independant look at console game sales from INDIVIDUAL companies; ie Rockstar,Bethesda, Square Enix and 2K Games for eg. These companies sell MILLIONS of ONE title EACH!!!
Put it this way, try selling ALL PC titles for the same inflation rate as console games, if the sales are sooo healthy.....nah didn't think so either :wink: |
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| Ozieo | (04:59 PM CEST - Aug,16 2010 ) | | A four year old corpse 6 feet under or an Egyptian mummy ain't dying either. |
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| gx-x | (05:08 PM CEST - Aug,16 2010 ) | just to keep one thing clear: developing a good game today takes a lot more time then it used. We used to be satisfied with something like NFS or tomb raider1, now we expect more, physix, interaction on more levels, better animations graphics etc. So it takes more time. Therefore, less games doesn't mean that something is dieing (I am not saying that it is not).
Also, 3000 titles for xbox360 means nothing if 2990 of them are pure garbage. There is a lot of garbage for PC also.
keep in mind that some games can only be played on PC (for now), like flight simulators, real RPG's, RTS etc. That alone is enough to keep PC gaming alive.
As for video cards, I agree with Tom, but you don't have to shell out 400$, 200$ is enough for a decent vid card unless you chase new hardware...I payed ~210euros for 5850 in December 2009, I have no need to change it.
PS. taking WoW as an example is stupid, I agree. He could as well take a farmwile as an example, more people play that than WoW...BUT activision, EA, 2K games etc also have excellent sales. Just look at the GTA4 sales for PC, CoD MW, MW2, Assassins Creed etc. Take into account digital distribution which now makes over 70% of sales, while console folks still have to go to store and buy a physical disc. I would say that PC is a good standing platform. Well, depends what you play anyway. I could never substitute Quake or CoD MP with Halo crap and kbd+mouse with gamepad...no way. If PC gaming really dies, we will loose a big chunk of gaming styles. :/ How about heroes of might and magic and games like that? FPS MP etc etc. Not good, not good at all.
I agree consoles are better suited for some types of games, but same goes for PC. |
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| Tom | (08:25 PM CEST - Aug,16 2010 ) | To say console outputs a lot of shit titles, well that depends on what you like now doesn't it? Don't generalize just because you think a lot of the games are shit. I have about 30 some digital downloads on my PS3..1942, Smashcars, Zen Pinball, Family Feud, 1943, Pool Hustler, Bowling, 3 on 3 nhl hockey to name a few...Some of these titles are not even on PC (cough 1943??). You might think some of them are shit while I play them 5-10 hours a week and enjoy them.
I said a while back, I got a 260GTX, I'd have to be an absolute fucking retard to get rid of it for a 460 because my 260GTX plays EVERYTHING at max with excellent fps.. Why? Why would I want to upgrade? There's jack shit on PC that warrants a new card. Nothing on the horizon that warrants it either. |
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| gx-x | (11:06 PM CEST - Aug,16 2010 ) | I never implied that games you play are shit. I said that there are many shit games that are being made in hopes that ~1000 will sell. Go to any site that sells console titles and look at the list then tell me how many % can be worth playing? How many "great" harry potter games are there? Barbie? Star wars force unleashed? (that's actually a good one compared to some of those that I have in mind and can't even remember their names), how many crappy generic fighters are there? Boxing games? I tell you, I checked once for newest xbox360 titles and got trough first 100 and saw 2-3 games that are know and worth something. The rest was...well at first i was like :O and then I loled :D
PS. And I am not saying console outputs a lot of shit titles, I am saying that at least 90% of titles are shit, and you never heard of 90% of those 90% of shit titles. You are most likely to find them selling in a China town or something like that... :P
PPS. 1943 can be played on PC. Ever heard of MAME emulator? :) well, you have all those games like 1943 (and many more great ones from Arcades, like Metal Slug etc.) bundled.
as for gtx260, I'll just be bold enough to say this: you can't play metro 2133 maxed out in HD res, you can't play Crysis or Crysis warhead maxed out (you can but I am talking 35fps average fps at LEAST), you can't play BF BC2 maxed out without stuttering, you can't play CoD MW2 maxed out without stuttering (or choking in scenes with lot's of smoke), I am pretty sure you can't play Mafia2 maxed out (physix on high), mirror's edge with physix on also has some trouble in some parts, you can't play GTA4 maxed out (without painful experience), you can't play Split Second maxed out (I think no one can) and if you want to add some AA to games you play the list could become pretty long :P
of course, I am not getting into quality of titles or codding, I am just stating some facts since I had gtx260 for...long time. Half of these can't be played (maxed out + AA) on 5850 850/1100...
but, is it worth the upgrade? No. I added ~20 euros on top of gtx260 to get 5850, otherwise I wouldn't have upgraded. btw, if you time upgrades correctly, you can always have next-gen video card/cpu/whatever with very little cash added on top of your older hardware. Before 5850/5870 went out to market, gtx260 could be sold for ~150-160 euros, now you can't get 100 for it. when 5850 got out you could find deals for ~200 euros, even less.
regards o/ |
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| Sabot | (05:28 PM CEST - Aug,17 2010 ) | gx-x, what you fail to realise is what is the biggest sellers on PC gets reproduced on console. Which then sells ten fold over the PC.
Being into PC gaming for nearly 18years, i can honestly say that graphics apart, the PC produces a ton of shit also -the trouble with the PC is your stuck with that shit, unlike the console whereby you can trade-in that rubbish title or even rent it -you can't rent PC games.
Have a look at the mini resurgence of OLD PC titles coming back out on console and PC; Sam & Max,Monkey Island.
The PC has a tremendous back catalogue, bit it's had its hey day. If you were old enough to be into gaming the very early 90's you would have been blown away by the scale of boxes, yeah FULL SIZE boxes with 600+ page spiral bound manuals. DO you know that back then the price of PC games were the SAME price as console games today. Yet the PC HAS to drop prices to justify the fact that you need to spend,spend to keep the interest in gaming on a PC. Even then it cannot survive without using digital as an excuse.
The PS3 for eg has had digital downloads since i've owned it, going back 3 years. I have full games; Syphon Filter,MGS and dozens more that i have both on the main machine and both mine and the wife's PSPs.
As i've said -and that's fact- the PC followed the consoles with digital downloads because it is truly DEAD in physical shop sales. STEAM doesn't represent the WORLD and is nothing more than a smoke screen.
Have a look at the biggest most played GAME-S not a GAME as in pathetic WoW on PC; BF BC2,MW2,GTA4 are all selling and being played by tons more on console.
Everything -more or less- that equates to the biggest sellers on PC are on console -without wondering about pathetic frame rates that you mentioned. That's where the story goes full circle and the console wins hands down -plug 'n' play is what consoles do best! |
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| Tom | (05:43 PM CEST - Aug,17 2010 ) | gx-x> I never implied that games you play are shit. I said that there are many shit games that are being made in hopes that ~1000 will sell. Go to any site that sells console titles and look at the list then tell me how many % can be worth playing? How many "great" harry potter games are there? Barbie? Star wars force unleashed? (that's actually a good one compared to some of those that I have in mind and can't even remember their names), how many crappy generic fighters are there? Boxing games? I tell you, I checked once for newest xbox360 titles and got trough first 100 and saw 2-3 games that are know and worth something. The rest was...well at first i was like :O and then I loled :D
PS. And I am not saying console outputs a lot of shit titles, I am saying that at least 90% of titles are shit, and you never heard of 90% of those 90% of shit titles. You are most likely to find them selling in a China town or something like that... :P
PPS. 1943 can be played on PC. Ever heard of MAME emulator? :) well, you have all those games like 1943 (and many more great ones from Arcades, like Metal Slug etc.) bundled.
as for gtx260, I'll just be bold enough to say this: you can't play metro 2133 maxed out in HD res, you can't play Crysis or Crysis warhead maxed out (you can but I am talking 35fps average fps at LEAST), you can't play BF BC2 maxed out without stuttering, you can't play CoD MW2 maxed out without stuttering (or choking in scenes with lot's of smoke), I am pretty sure you can't play Mafia2 maxed out (physix on high), mirror's edge with physix on also has some trouble in some parts, you can't play GTA4 maxed out (without painful experience), you can't play Split Second maxed out (I think no one can) and if you want to add some AA to games you play the list could become pretty long :P
of course, I am not getting into quality of titles or codding, I am just stating some facts since I had gtx260 for...long time. Half of these can't be played (maxed out + AA) on 5850 850/1100...
but, is it worth the upgrade? No. I added ~20 euros on top of gtx260 to get 5850, otherwise I wouldn't have upgraded. btw, if you time upgrades correctly, you can always have next-gen video card/cpu/whatever with very little cash added on top of your older hardware. Before 5850/5870 went out to market, gtx260 could be sold for ~150-160 euros, now you can't get 100 for it. when 5850 got out you could find deals for ~200 euros, even less.
regards o/
Lots to respond on.
Dude, 1942 MAME != 1942 redone on PS3. Not even close. I have about 200 working titles on MAME, including sdlmame on Linux.. ( http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/1942jointstrike/images/0/1/?om_act=convert&om_clk=gsimage&tag=thumb%3B1 ) to get an idea of what 1942 is on PS3
Your shit games logic makes no sense what so ever. You say they are not all shit, then you say 90% and then 90% of 90% of those titles are shit. Sorry don't get at all what you are saying. Confused? so am I.
Sorry bud, I played BC2 at 2048x1152 maxxed out (minus AA). No vid lag whatever. I don't play the game anymore and the lag there at the time was was a bug, bullet lag, hitboxes etc.
Metro 2033 you mean? I finished that POS game and yes, 2048x1152 again maxxed out. No perf issues at all. I never checked fps but I would have noticed a drop below 50fps.
Maybe because my GTX is Super OC as it says on the box..Maybe because I got 16GB of ram>? maybe because I'm running Win 7 and you're on XP?! Maybe it's my Quad core? I don't know, but even Crysis, Warhead etc runs at max everything (minus AA) without a single issue. As I said, I have absolutely no reason what so ever to justify dumping my GTX 260, it runs everything at max without a hiccup. SC II runs without much problems at highest res and quality. The lag from what I understand is game bugs..TF2, if I turn off vsync I get a million fps on that too..
Also, if you want to say I should use AA. Never liked AA and at a high resolution, AA really doesn't even factor in anymore. I certainly don't go "Oh look I got little jaggies on my gun". I don't, I don't care.
That's true too what Stumpus says, take any title on PC and check MP and see how many players are online, now load up console version. It's not even close. Console has 10x more players online than PC. Like COD W@W, loved it on PC but on console it's just retarded as there are millions of people playing it all day long. PC is a joke compared to the popularity of console.. That guy from iD is a total fucking retard imo. |
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| gx-x | (05:59 PM CEST - Aug,17 2010 ) | @Stumpus:
"If you were old enough to be into gaming the very early 90's you would have been blown away by the scale of boxes"
:P
I am actually 30 since May :( I gamed all the way from comodore 64, over Amiga, Sega mega drive, and so on. I probably played most of those titles from that box :)
as for other part of your post, well, it is your opinion, somewhat I agree, somewhere fully agree (that developers and producers are shit mostly, that console titles adopted from PC sell better (I don't know of any such title, only other way around :S but I trust you on that). More over, I would add that many console users don't have access to "proper" internet since they don't own PC (I know that kind of people) and ofc never pirate anything. On the other hand, PC users are tired of all the crap they got served and many of us "try before buy" and then just don't buy.
Also, most figures showing console vs PC sales don't include digital distro so...
also, console users will buy/eat all kinds of crap. Did you play Rainbox Six Vegas? Very good game. then came Vegas2. Utter shit. Guess what? it sold GREAT on consoles!
ubisoft says: "Rainbow Six Vegas 2 which hit stores during the publisher's fourth quarter is also performing well with sales already nearing two million units."
I got the game FREE with some MSI vid card on review (I think, maybe it was leadtek, not sure) I installed it, played it for ~30 mins and uninstalled it. I checked some forums and 95% of people say it's plain rubbish. It's a dumbed down version of first Vegas, which is dumbed down version of excellent Rainbow Six series which would probably fail with sales on console.
So for me the main issue is not whether PC gaming is dead, it is actually if is gaming using at least some brains and more than just button mashing dead? Console users don't seem to miss RTS games at all and Halo is a "best MP shooter ever". If we are talking about the death of a platform it will be due to a certain genres of games are not popular anymore AND lack of titles and quality. It is not due to 400$ video cards.
This is all so very much similar to format wars (HDDVD vs BlueRay), ofc Sony won due to Toshiba not having a kick ass gaming console with branded titles. Porn industry decided format wars back in 80's, video games decided it in 2000's. Yea, children play violent video games, and don't watch enough porn dammit! :(
edit:
@Tom:
"Your shit games logic makes no sense what so ever. You say they are not all shit, then you say 90% and then 90% of 90% of those titles are shit. Sorry don't get at all what you are saying. Confused? so am I."
No, I said you and most of intelligent beings never heard of 90% of all those shit titles that make 90% of console titles. You heard of some bad titles that were supposed to be good, but you never head of titles that are not even marketed, and there are PLENTY of those.
as for remake of 1943 - well, nice to have that. Surely not worth buying a PS3 now is it? Original is still good, and besides, I prefer warblade over all those titles, and there isn't one for PS3 :P
"Metro 2033 you mean? I finished that POS game and yes, 2048x1152 again maxxed out. No perf issues at all. I never checked fps but I would have noticed a drop below 50fps.
Maybe because my GTX is Super OC as it says on the box..Maybe because I got 16GB of ram>? maybe because I'm running Win 7 and you're on XP?! Maybe it's my Quad core?"
Sorry, hard to believe that. You don't need me to say it, you have online reviews. all of them can't be wrong can they? Besides, I am on 850/1100 5850, win 7 x64 ultimate, 4gb of ram (fps doesn't have anything to do with ram as long as there is enough so the game doesn't stutter while loading something).
the only reason might be that you cannot max out the game with gtx260 since you have no advanced shaders that dx11 provide, therefore no advanced effects under dx11 menu, and you lack a whole notch of quality settings meant for dx11.
here is a proof to you:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-480,2585-12.html
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,707055/Metro-2033-Benchmarks-with-DirectX-11-and-GPU-Physx/Practice/
not even in 1680x1050 you can get 50fps average :P Even with gtx480 ;)
PS. as for popularity of consoles - I never disagreed with that. I am just saying that popularity doesn't equal quality. CoD W@W MP with gamepad? To me, That's like 100m sprint with crouches or a wheelchair Tokyo drift. I don't care how popular it is, it sucks. |
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| Tom | (07:01 PM CEST - Aug,17 2010 ) | @ gx-x
quote:
the only reason might be that you cannot max out the game with gtx260 since you have no advanced shaders that dx11
True, I forgot about dx11 bs... |
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| darknothing | (03:37 PM CEST - Aug,18 2010 ) | i dont give a shit if pc gaming is dieing ill still play pc games till there are no titles to play,
i rather play games on my laptop any day over my xbox/wii.
sure pretty soon ill need to upgrade, but screw it i can afford it. |
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