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 Gameguru Mania News - Aug,20 2015 -  
Nvidia GeForce GTX 950 tested - tech
(hx) 11:06 PM CEST - Aug,20 2015 - Post a comment / read (26)
The GTX 980 Ti, 980, 970 and the 960 are all great cards, though unfortunately most of them cost well over $300. The GTX 960 is the cheapest Maxwell GPU worth buying but at $200 it's still too pricey for many gamers. That's where the new Nvidia GeForce GTX 950 steps in, replacing the GTX 750 Ti as the new $150 GPU in Nvidia's current generation line up. Whereas the GTX 750 Ti was light on performance, the GTX 950 promises to deliver highly playable 1080p performance and will take on the R7 370 (a rebadged R7 265, which was also a rebadge of 2012's HD 7850). The GTX 950 features the same GM206 GPU as the GTX 960 with a few core features disabled. Rather than all 8 SMM units the GTX 950 features just 6 SMM units for a total of 768 CUDA cores.
OCC: Regardless of base core clock, when run within the confines of the power limit and thermal profile, the GTX 950s are boosting on their own to over 1400MHz on the core to push that performance envelope. Manual overclocking allows the end user to push a bit harder and I was able to hit GPU Boost speeds of 1551MHz on the EVGA SSC, 1538MHz on the MSI Gaming, and 1569MHz on the ASUS Strix. Overclocking of the 2GB of GDDR5 memory on each card was just as fruitful, with speeds in excess of 1855MHz on each of the three cards.

Running cool and quiet in your gaming rig is all the rage now, with cards that don't cut the mustard on fan noise getting eviscerated in the online communities. ASUS, EVGA, and MSI all have put in the work to deliver zero noise solutions that make the video card an after thought when you think of the noise profile of your PC. ASUS' DirectCU II cooling solution on the GTX 950 Strix is a bit more modest than the larger cooling solutions used on the EVGA and MSI cards, and that lack of size hurts its comparative performance at both stock and overclocked settings. EVGA does a bit better with its ACX 2.0 big heat pipe solution when overclocked, but at stock speeds the low dBi BIOS keeps the temperatures up a bit higher to minimize the noise profile. The best thermals were delivered by MSI and the Twin Frozr V cooling solution. A pair of 100mm propeller blade fans with directional vanes in the fin array help keep the card running cool. Not that the EVGA and ASUS cards are hot by comparison. When you look at power consumption all three boards hit the same marks and work within roughly the same envelope.

For this launch, NVIDIA is upping the game with its Geforce Experience tool kit by replacing ShadowPlay with a tool called Share that really opens up a lot of possibilities to, in essence, share your gaming experiences. You get game optimizations for both high and low latency MOBA gaming and standard optimized profiles for a wealth of titles. During my testing, I had a chance to really try this out and I was prepared to get a dose of less than optimum eye candy with the FPS jacked way up, but found that I got great fluid gameplay with enough eye candy to make me happy. Add in the back end work with GameWorks and you have a winning combination.

HotHardware: The GeForce GTX 950 cards from ASUS and EVGA we tested, were quite power friendly. Both of the cards consumed the same about of power at idle, though the EVGA card used somewhat more under load. Both cards, however, consumed the least amount of power of the bunch.

With such low power consumption, it should come as no surprise that these GeForce GTX 950 cards are relatively quiet as well. Both cards are basically inaudible at idle over a typical CPU cooler and PSU fan, especially since their fans can spin down at lower-temps and not product any noise at all. Under load, their fans do spin up somewhat, but both cards remained quiet throughout testing.

LegionHardware: Gamers hoping for playable performance at 1080p will be pleased with what the GTX 950 has to offer, especially considering that most of the games we tested were done so using the highest possible quality settings with some form of anti-aliasing enabled.

Recently released titles such as The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt and Dragon Age: Inquisition averaged around 40fps, while older titles such as BioShock Infinite and Hitman: Absolution averaged over 60fps.

The Palit GTX 950 StormX Dual graphics card that we were supplied with ran very cool at a little over 70 degrees underload and remained whisper quiet at all times. Although it only features a basic aluminium heatsink it demonstrated excellent overclocking performance and proved that a 768 core Maxwell GPU doesn’t produce much heat.

We don’t expect AMD to sit around and watch the GeForce GTX 950 cannibalize the budget gaming market. If history has told us anything we expect AMD to slash pricing of the R7 370 on or soon after the launch of the GTX 950. Furthermore we expect to see a rehash of the R9 270X, which will likely be called the Radeon R9 370X. This means it will feature 1280 SPUs and consequently outperform the GTX 950, but this is of course just speculation

Guru3D. The MSI GeForce GTX 950 Gaming is one of the best GTX 950 cards we have tested. It has an impressive yet totally silent cooler. Increase fan RPM and you'll be amazed how silent the card remains and how cold your GPU will get. That adds benefits to overclocking and tweaking. This product offers proper cooling and totally silent noise levels. Combined with the rendering performance I'd call this product a capable 1080P graphics card. All boxes are ticked and that makes this a competitive product. Purchasing this product to game at WQHD / 2560x1440 is ill-advised though, 1080P is the maximum space and domain of the GeForce GTX 950. But that would be at pretty decent image quality settings. We do hope to see a 4 GB version as well though. These cards might not be the greatest performers, but we certainly like what they offer. Decent gaming performance in a cool package with interesting tweaking options and for a product in this class, very nice looks with a proper cooler. We like it, nice.

Update, the basic models GeForce GTX 950 are going to cost roughly 179,00 EURO incl. VAT and $159 USD for the US. When did entry level gaming become this expensive ?
last 10 comments:
Tom(01:27 AM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
come game on pc with a piece of shit video card or just forget about gaming on a pc and go grab yourself a console that costs the same price as a video card you should be buying.

gx-x(02:42 AM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
you can game on radeon 270X or with radeon 285 just fine @200$ or under. gtx960 is also an option, they can be found fo 170ish $.
I am talking about gaming @1080p, which is not upscaled.

Thudo(04:02 AM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Yes because I want a very limited # of dumbed-down released games retarded only to 1080p with outdated hardware further increasing the retardation. Face it: you lost that argument a loonnng time ago with your 5-7 year fixed h/w released in a world where innovations happen every few frick'n months. In the REAL tech world, a year is too long... In the REAL WORLD, our boxes actually play games AND can make us money at the same time if we so desired. Go back to kindergarten with those kiddie boxes of yours, I hear they work well at the cottage with the drunken d00ds all hammered playing their la la games o joy! 8)

tiamat(09:45 AM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Tom> come game on pc with a piece of shit video card or just forget about gaming on a pc and go grab yourself a console that costs the same price as a video card you should be buying.

Try getting 41 fps in TW3 on high settings on your console. Oh wait, you can't use high settings.

A 750Ti is faster than the GPU in the xbone and not much slower than a PS4. I game quite happily at 1920x1200 with one.

psolord(04:30 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
gx-x> you can game on radeon 270X or with radeon 285 just fine @200$ or under. gtx960 is also an option, they can be found fo 170ish $.
I am talking about gaming @1080p, which is not upscaled.

"not upscaled"

epic :D

Tom(05:52 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Financially speaking, a console makes way more sense for gaming than a PC. Nobody gives a fuck about 30fps or 90fps. If the games are smooth and play well, that's all that matter. Only an ignorant fucking PC user will use that as their supposed promotion. I for one am not buying a piece of shit $200 video card, so I can regret it later when I want to up the graphics. How many suckers will fall for the 950? Then they are stuck with a hunk of shit and have to go buy a real video card. Add up the cost.. the old shit card and the new one. Well Nvidia or AMD will be happy for sure eh. Don't even try and tell me these articles aren't anything more than a sales driver for those 2 companies. Only a fucking idiot will buy a 950. It isn't worth the measly savings. Buy a 960 or 970. If they are too expensive, wait for a sale.

gx-x(06:09 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Tom, 30 fps is not smooth compared to 60, you can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. It's so obvious that once the FPS drops from 60 to 30 in game you feel like it dropped to 10.

quote:
Only a fucking [censored] will buy a 950. It isn't worth the measly savings. Buy a 960 or 970. If they are too expensive, wait for a sale.

With this I sort of agree. 150$ for gtx950? It's a joke. People were looking for 950 to replace 750Ti for their living room htpc's. They got a dual slot dual cooler "monster" that is not what they were looking for.
Performance wise, buy a used card that is still covered by warranty for 150$ and you will be getting something like gtx960 or AMD 270x almost brand new. I saw r9 285's going for as low as ~130$ (no warranty) and ~160 with 1 year warranty...

gtx970 is overpriced as shit.

Tom(06:34 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
gx-x> Tom, 30 fps is not smooth compared to 60, you can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. It's so obvious that once the FPS drops from 60 to 30 in game you feel like it dropped to 10.

quote:
Only a fucking [censored] will buy a 950. It isn't worth the measly savings. Buy a 960 or 970. If they are too expensive, wait for a sale.

With this I sort of agree. 150$ for gtx950? It's a joke. People were looking for 950 to replace 750Ti for their living room htpc's. They got a dual slot dual cooler "monster" that is not what they were looking for.
Performance wise, buy a used card that is still covered by warranty for 150$ and you will be getting something like gtx960 or AMD 270x almost brand new. I saw r9 285's going for as low as ~130$ (no warranty) and ~160 with 1 year warranty...

gtx970 is overpriced as shit.

It's not that it's just overpriced, it's $150 and when you realize it's a hunk of shit, that's just $150 you paid you'll never get back. Add that to the cost of the new card you buy.. Surprise surprise you are over $400. Gee that should help Nvidia just fine. Sorry I don't buy someones used card with absolutely no idea what they've done to it. I'll never waste my money on a used video card. Ever. Yes, 970 and up is all overpriced man. It's gouging. You are paying for tech invented years ago that sat on a fucking shelf while Nvidia and ATI bled their even older tech. Nvidia and AMD aren't out for PC gaming, they are out to make as much money off fools as they can. They can always rely on some shit review site to try and justify buying their overpriced video cards. They hurt PC gaming, they don't help it.

I bought a 960, it cost me $150. It replaced my 560 which is now in one of my HTPC's. Worst purchase I ever made. I paid the price because I didn't care to read a million reviews and tally and evaluate the BS in the reviews. It was on sale and I said, F it, gotta be better than my 560. And it really isn't. I tried to sell it and I get lowballed all over the place. Yippe I can sell it for $100, lose $50 + taxes and use that $100 towards a new card. 2 months old and purchased on sale and they want it for $100. Haha! F it, for now I play Med-Hi quality with stuff turned off. I'll wait for a sale, put the 960 in another one of my PC's eventually. When a game warrants a new card.

If prices don't come down, I'll buy an Xbone. As it is, games are so stupidly expensive along with those fucking lame websites trying to reason and explain why they are high.. Oh games have been cheap for a long time and unrealistically priced. Ya, and they ripped away the box, the media, the manuals and you charge $80 for a game and I download it on my internet I also pay for. Go f yourself. Anyone that wants to say a game is worth $80+ is a fucking idiot. My game buy has gone down so much, I barely remember the last time I bought a game. Battlefront will probably be the next game and what are they charging? Oh $70+.

gx-x(06:56 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
how is 960 not better than 560? That's just insane. It twice as fast at least. Maybe you are having some other issues other than speed? I'd take it off your hands for 150$ in a heartbeat. (new ones are ~240€ in my country, used ones with warranty are ~200€, that's ~220$ USD for a used card with one year warranty)

As for used cards, it doesn't really matter what user did with it if it works and has warranty. If it dies - you will get another, new. If it is faulty - same thing, RMA it.
You can't do anything that the card can't do anyway. Especially with nVidia since they never mined any poopcoins.

Genoism(07:39 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Tom> gx-x> Tom, 30 fps is not smooth compared to 60, you can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. It's so obvious that once the FPS drops from 60 to 30 in game you feel like it dropped to 10.

quote:
Only a fucking [censored] will buy a 950. It isn't worth the measly savings. Buy a 960 or 970. If they are too expensive, wait for a sale.

With this I sort of agree. 150$ for gtx950? It's a joke. People were looking for 950 to replace 750Ti for their living room htpc's. They got a dual slot dual cooler "monster" that is not what they were looking for.
Performance wise, buy a used card that is still covered by warranty for 150$ and you will be getting something like gtx960 or AMD 270x almost brand new. I saw r9 285's going for as low as ~130$ (no warranty) and ~160 with 1 year warranty...

gtx970 is overpriced as shit.

It's not that it's just overpriced, it's $150 and when you realize it's a hunk of shit, that's just $150 you paid you'll never get back. Add that to the cost of the new card you buy.. Surprise surprise you are over $400. Gee that should help Nvidia just fine. Sorry I don't buy someones used card with absolutely no idea what they've done to it. I'll never waste my money on a used video card. Ever. Yes, 970 and up is all overpriced man. It's gouging. You are paying for tech invented years ago that sat on a fucking shelf while Nvidia and ATI bled their even older tech. Nvidia and AMD aren't out for PC gaming, they are out to make as much money off fools as they can. They can always rely on some shit review site to try and justify buying their overpriced video cards. They hurt PC gaming, they don't help it.

I bought a 960, it cost me $150. It replaced my 560 which is now in one of my HTPC's. Worst purchase I ever made. I paid the price because I didn't care to read a million reviews and tally and evaluate the BS in the reviews. It was on sale and I said, F it, gotta be better than my 560. And it really isn't. I tried to sell it and I get lowballed all over the place. Yippe I can sell it for $100, lose $50 + taxes and use that $100 towards a new card. 2 months old and purchased on sale and they want it for $100. Haha! F it, for now I play Med-Hi quality with stuff turned off. I'll wait for a sale, put the 960 in another one of my PC's eventually. When a game warrants a new card.

If prices don't come down, I'll buy an Xbone. As it is, games are so stupidly expensive along with those fucking lame websites trying to reason and explain why they are high.. Oh games have been cheap for a long time and unrealistically priced. Ya, and they ripped away the box, the media, the manuals and you charge $80 for a game and I download it on my internet I also pay for. Go f yourself. Anyone that wants to say a game is worth $80+ is a fucking [censored]. My game buy has gone down so much, I barely remember the last time I bought a game. Battlefront will probably be the next game and what are they charging? Oh $70+.

Dude you are unrealistically stupid or you've poorly thought out your argument.

I'm a developer so let me tell you the other side of the story if it never dawned on you.

People expect today's games to have better graphics then yesterdays game for the same price. It takes a stupid amount of time to make it look better, and better, and better. And for the same price? Are you retarded?

What about inflation bro? You know what that is? Today $60 is not worth the same as it was 10 years ago. Developers would like you know, to get raises. You know, like in every other industry. So that they could do stuff like PAY THEIR BILLS.

Everyone always thinks it's about corporate greed, sometimes it really is, most of the time it's not. Making better games costs more money, inflation rises, people want raises. Use your fucking head.

Tom(07:43 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
gx-x> how is 960 not better than 560? That's just insane. It twice as fast at least. Maybe you are having some other issues other than speed? I'd take it off your hands for 150$ in a heartbeat. (new ones are ~240€ in my country, used ones with warranty are ~200€, that's ~220$ USD for a used card with one year warranty)

As for used cards, it doesn't really matter what user did with it if it works and has warranty. If it dies - you will get another, new. If it is faulty - same thing, RMA it.
You can't do anything that the card can't do anyway. Especially with nVidia since they never mined any poopcoins.

that's it exactly, I don't want to be bothered with RMA. I saved $100 on the video card. It was regular $250. It doesn't seem to perform any better than my 560. 2 striking things I realized later. 256Bit Memory bus vs 128bit on the 960 and Memory bandwidth 112GB/s vs 560 with 121GB/s. That's the difference. It's not much better in fact it's negligible. I have a Asrock Extreme3 Gen3 and my RAM is Mushkin and the fastest the board can take. In a lot of cases especially at 1920x1080, I gain a measly 9fps. When I play BF I can barely even notice I have a new card.

I'm due for an upgrade overall soon anyway I guess.

Csimbi(07:54 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
The GTX 580 I bought 4 years ago still beats half of those cards.

Tom(07:56 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Genoism> Tom> gx-x> Tom, 30 fps is not smooth compared to 60, you can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. It's so obvious that once the FPS drops from 60 to 30 in game you feel like it dropped to 10.

quote:
Only a fucking [censored] will buy a 950. It isn't worth the measly savings. Buy a 960 or 970. If they are too expensive, wait for a sale.

With this I sort of agree. 150$ for gtx950? It's a joke. People were looking for 950 to replace 750Ti for their living room htpc's. They got a dual slot dual cooler "monster" that is not what they were looking for.
Performance wise, buy a used card that is still covered by warranty for 150$ and you will be getting something like gtx960 or AMD 270x almost brand new. I saw r9 285's going for as low as ~130$ (no warranty) and ~160 with 1 year warranty...

gtx970 is overpriced as shit.

It's not that it's just overpriced, it's $150 and when you realize it's a hunk of shit, that's just $150 you paid you'll never get back. Add that to the cost of the new card you buy.. Surprise surprise you are over $400. Gee that should help Nvidia just fine. Sorry I don't buy someones used card with absolutely no idea what they've done to it. I'll never waste my money on a used video card. Ever. Yes, 970 and up is all overpriced man. It's gouging. You are paying for tech invented years ago that sat on a fucking shelf while Nvidia and ATI bled their even older tech. Nvidia and AMD aren't out for PC gaming, they are out to make as much money off fools as they can. They can always rely on some shit review site to try and justify buying their overpriced video cards. They hurt PC gaming, they don't help it.

I bought a 960, it cost me $150. It replaced my 560 which is now in one of my HTPC's. Worst purchase I ever made. I paid the price because I didn't care to read a million reviews and tally and evaluate the BS in the reviews. It was on sale and I said, F it, gotta be better than my 560. And it really isn't. I tried to sell it and I get lowballed all over the place. Yippe I can sell it for $100, lose $50 + taxes and use that $100 towards a new card. 2 months old and purchased on sale and they want it for $100. Haha! F it, for now I play Med-Hi quality with stuff turned off. I'll wait for a sale, put the 960 in another one of my PC's eventually. When a game warrants a new card.

If prices don't come down, I'll buy an Xbone. As it is, games are so stupidly expensive along with those fucking lame websites trying to reason and explain why they are high.. Oh games have been cheap for a long time and unrealistically priced. Ya, and they ripped away the box, the media, the manuals and you charge $80 for a game and I download it on my internet I also pay for. Go f yourself. Anyone that wants to say a game is worth $80+ is a fucking [censored]. My game buy has gone down so much, I barely remember the last time I bought a game. Battlefront will probably be the next game and what are they charging? Oh $70+.

Dude you are unrealistically stupid or you've poorly thought out your argument.

I'm a developer so let me tell you the other side of the story if it never dawned on you.

People expect today's games to have better graphics then yesterdays game for the same price. It takes a stupid amount of time to make it look better, and better, and better. And for the same price? Are you retarded?

What about inflation bro? You know what that is? Today $60 is not worth the same as it was 10 years ago. Developers would like you know, to get raises. You know, like in every other industry. So that they could do stuff like PAY THEIR BILLS.

Everyone always thinks it's about corporate greed, sometimes it really is, most of the time it's not. Making better games costs more money, inflation rises, people want raises. Use your fucking head.

Hahaha listen to this guy. Bud you make me laugh. Better games? Where?!?!?! I just see the same shit over and over again with a new fucking skin job. If any games are good these days it's the indie games. Fuck EA and Origin, Activision etc. Ripoff artists who just regurgitate the same fucking code and throw a few different DirectX implementations in. And then what? DX9. Ya DX9, outdated shit. Inflation?.. go fuck yourself. Oh ya, 7 years later we realize we forgot inflation and jack the prices. Convenient. Or use that as an excuse to fund overpaid developers. Where is the inflation ripping away the box, manuals, cd?! Remember back then when they said it cost them lots of money to include this stuff and it was a means to cut prices to reduce that stuff. Ya it was all bullshit. Fuck that. No the industry is fucking greedy when they already make a fuck load of money. Or how about the financial hit they take when they put out junk? Gotta make up for that huh? Game industry is a joke as are the fucking pussy ass devs we have these days. Lots of salary for jack shit. When DX12 games start rolling out consecutively, then I could see prices jump but to pay for old DX9 games and upgraded engines for $80. fuck off.

You can play your violin all you want, I was a dev too, late 80's and part of the 90's. But back then we made great games and I was involved in decent titles. It was about making games and sure profit, but given the game was good it easily made lots of profit. I got paid decently back then too, can't complain. Not today, it's about maximizing the buck, putting out half-titles and then expansion this and addon that. It's BS game making designed only to gouge gamers. Nowadays they actually sit there with a completed title and negotiate what to keep in the game and what to resell as an addon. That's how the game industry works.

gx-x(08:39 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Genoism> Tom> gx-x> Tom, 30 fps is not smooth compared to 60, you can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. It's so obvious that once the FPS drops from 60 to 30 in game you feel like it dropped to 10.

quote:
Only a fucking [censored] will buy a 950. It isn't worth the measly savings. Buy a 960 or 970. If they are too expensive, wait for a sale.

With this I sort of agree. 150$ for gtx950? It's a joke. People were looking for 950 to replace 750Ti for their living room htpc's. They got a dual slot dual cooler "monster" that is not what they were looking for.
Performance wise, buy a used card that is still covered by warranty for 150$ and you will be getting something like gtx960 or AMD 270x almost brand new. I saw r9 285's going for as low as ~130$ (no warranty) and ~160 with 1 year warranty...

gtx970 is overpriced as shit.

It's not that it's just overpriced, it's $150 and when you realize it's a hunk of shit, that's just $150 you paid you'll never get back. Add that to the cost of the new card you buy.. Surprise surprise you are over $400. Gee that should help Nvidia just fine. Sorry I don't buy someones used card with absolutely no idea what they've done to it. I'll never waste my money on a used video card. Ever. Yes, 970 and up is all overpriced man. It's gouging. You are paying for tech invented years ago that sat on a fucking shelf while Nvidia and ATI bled their even older tech. Nvidia and AMD aren't out for PC gaming, they are out to make as much money off fools as they can. They can always rely on some shit review site to try and justify buying their overpriced video cards. They hurt PC gaming, they don't help it.

I bought a 960, it cost me $150. It replaced my 560 which is now in one of my HTPC's. Worst purchase I ever made. I paid the price because I didn't care to read a million reviews and tally and evaluate the BS in the reviews. It was on sale and I said, F it, gotta be better than my 560. And it really isn't. I tried to sell it and I get lowballed all over the place. Yippe I can sell it for $100, lose $50 + taxes and use that $100 towards a new card. 2 months old and purchased on sale and they want it for $100. Haha! F it, for now I play Med-Hi quality with stuff turned off. I'll wait for a sale, put the 960 in another one of my PC's eventually. When a game warrants a new card.

If prices don't come down, I'll buy an Xbone. As it is, games are so stupidly expensive along with those fucking lame websites trying to reason and explain why they are high.. Oh games have been cheap for a long time and unrealistically priced. Ya, and they ripped away the box, the media, the manuals and you charge $80 for a game and I download it on my internet I also pay for. Go f yourself. Anyone that wants to say a game is worth $80+ is a fucking [censored]. My game buy has gone down so much, I barely remember the last time I bought a game. Battlefront will probably be the next game and what are they charging? Oh $70+.

Dude you are unrealistically stupid or you've poorly thought out your argument.

I'm a developer so let me tell you the other side of the story if it never dawned on you.

People expect today's games to have better graphics then yesterdays game for the same price. It takes a stupid amount of time to make it look better, and better, and better. And for the same price? Are you retarded?

What about inflation bro? You know what that is? Today $60 is not worth the same as it was 10 years ago. Developers would like you know, to get raises. You know, like in every other industry. So that they could do stuff like PAY THEIR BILLS.

Everyone always thinks it's about corporate greed, sometimes it really is, most of the time it's not. Making better games costs more money, inflation rises, people want raises. Use your fucking head.

Sorry man but you argument isn't truthful. You have way better tools at your disposal today. Engines like UE3/4 , Cryengine etc. They have a lot of assets already build into them so level designers can jump to work from day one. Computers are faster, coding is streamlined etc. I'd bet my ballz that it is easier for a coder to make a game today than it was 10 years ago so yea, you are expect to make a better looking game within a same timeframe. You are payed as much as you would be 10 years ago, if not more, and user base for sales is larger than it was 10 years ago, and publishers save on boxes and whatnot.

Without knowing a damn thing about using UE3 engine, I got my hands on student version and fiddled around a bit and created some stuff that actually works. And I am a graphics designer, a photoshop and illustrator with zero affinity and skills in coding.

Either today's coders are far less educated/skilled than coders were 15 years ago (yes, not everyone is John Carmack, I know that), or they are just using the wrong tools (or even worse, lazy).
When I look at some AAA titles out there that work good, look good, and compare them with some others that cost more, don't look as good, don't work at all (as in, they are released but they are really a mess not even worthy of the name "alpha"), I wonder how come?
Higher price tag is not justified at all. The Witcher was never 80$ and was always better (technologically) than anything else out there. Same goes for Crysis.
Now if you want to try and tell me that Frostbyte dudes that recycle assets and models and pretty much everything for years, deserve 80$ for the same game they already sold me last year - well, cool, but I say they can shove it up their asses.

gx-x(08:45 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
@Tom:

You have a bottleneck somewhere, idk, If you look at reviews you see that there is plenty more fps on gtx 960 compared to the low end cards that are all faster than gtx560 at this point. I had 560Ti and I replaced it with 650Ti Boost and 650Ti was faster. Now I don't know about BF, that thing was always capped at 60fps with occasional drops so if that is the only thing you play you only need a card that will cap the fps in that game and you are done, no need to experiment.
But I can tell you one thing: 560Ti couldn't run Madashi video renderer at the settings that gtx 960 can, not even close. I know people usually don't use MadVR but I do so it's important to me as much as game framerate...What can I say, I am hooked. :)

PS. FYI: memory speed play little to no role in game performance. You could set Z68 to work with 2000Mhz memory but 1333 CL9 would probably work faster. When I say faster I mean you would gain like 1fps on min fps and 2fps on average fps.
Try rising the multiplier on your CPU by 5. It should work without fiddling with voltages, stock voltage (ie: AUTO) is usually overvolting the CPU by a lot so you are probably good to go up to 4.4GHz with it. You'll open some headroom for the GPU and probably gain as much fps as the % you overclocked the CPU.

Tom(09:05 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
@gx-x Perhaps...I'll have to check things out. I have wanted to replace the mobo but I've been too f'ing lazy.


@genoism, gx-x. Dude, that's what devs do today, they make excuses to substantiate the market they are F'ing over and their over inflated bank accounts. Half of them are hacks who don't even have a proper education. Dev's these days lie like 10x more to the public than a fucking politician does. Spread misinformation, do interviews and lie out their asses. It's about making money. Look at activision and COD, EA and BF. It's about money not making a quality game. My respect goes to Indie devs not these big fat bloated companies that make money hand over fist with the same code base over and over again.

Tom(09:40 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Another excuse that will no longer be valid..

Xbox One now supports 1080p, 60fps streaming to Windows 10

Steelers Lounge
http://steelerslounge.com/2015/08/xbox-one-now-supports-1080p-60fps-streaming-to-windows-10/542/

gx-x(09:42 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
no need to change perfectly good mobo Tom. I am on Z68 with an i5, there's nothing wrong with it. While the bus on 960 is narrower than on 560Ti, memory speed and memory itself is faster and making up for it (compared to 560Ti) and surpassing it. I mean, 960 is somewhere on par (game to game, it depends) with 7970/280x and difference between my former 560Ti and this 280x is...huge.
Maybe BF increased details when it detected gtx 960 giving you better graphics fidelity (maybe not noticeable) with similar fps? I don't know but your system should run nicely, you have decent hardware.

Genoism(09:50 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
gx-x> Genoism> Tom> gx-x> Tom, 30 fps is not smooth compared to 60, you can deny that all you want, but it's a fact. It's so obvious that once the FPS drops from 60 to 30 in game you feel like it dropped to 10.

quote:
Only a fucking [censored] will buy a 950. It isn't worth the measly savings. Buy a 960 or 970. If they are too expensive, wait for a sale.

With this I sort of agree. 150$ for gtx950? It's a joke. People were looking for 950 to replace 750Ti for their living room htpc's. They got a dual slot dual cooler "monster" that is not what they were looking for.
Performance wise, buy a used card that is still covered by warranty for 150$ and you will be getting something like gtx960 or AMD 270x almost brand new. I saw r9 285's going for as low as ~130$ (no warranty) and ~160 with 1 year warranty...

gtx970 is overpriced as shit.

It's not that it's just overpriced, it's $150 and when you realize it's a hunk of shit, that's just $150 you paid you'll never get back. Add that to the cost of the new card you buy.. Surprise surprise you are over $400. Gee that should help Nvidia just fine. Sorry I don't buy someones used card with absolutely no idea what they've done to it. I'll never waste my money on a used video card. Ever. Yes, 970 and up is all overpriced man. It's gouging. You are paying for tech invented years ago that sat on a fucking shelf while Nvidia and ATI bled their even older tech. Nvidia and AMD aren't out for PC gaming, they are out to make as much money off fools as they can. They can always rely on some shit review site to try and justify buying their overpriced video cards. They hurt PC gaming, they don't help it.

I bought a 960, it cost me $150. It replaced my 560 which is now in one of my HTPC's. Worst purchase I ever made. I paid the price because I didn't care to read a million reviews and tally and evaluate the BS in the reviews. It was on sale and I said, F it, gotta be better than my 560. And it really isn't. I tried to sell it and I get lowballed all over the place. Yippe I can sell it for $100, lose $50 + taxes and use that $100 towards a new card. 2 months old and purchased on sale and they want it for $100. Haha! F it, for now I play Med-Hi quality with stuff turned off. I'll wait for a sale, put the 960 in another one of my PC's eventually. When a game warrants a new card.

If prices don't come down, I'll buy an Xbone. As it is, games are so stupidly expensive along with those fucking lame websites trying to reason and explain why they are high.. Oh games have been cheap for a long time and unrealistically priced. Ya, and they ripped away the box, the media, the manuals and you charge $80 for a game and I download it on my internet I also pay for. Go f yourself. Anyone that wants to say a game is worth $80+ is a fucking [censored]. My game buy has gone down so much, I barely remember the last time I bought a game. Battlefront will probably be the next game and what are they charging? Oh $70+.

Dude you are unrealistically stupid or you've poorly thought out your argument.

I'm a developer so let me tell you the other side of the story if it never dawned on you.

People expect today's games to have better graphics then yesterdays game for the same price. It takes a stupid amount of time to make it look better, and better, and better. And for the same price? Are you retarded?

What about inflation bro? You know what that is? Today $60 is not worth the same as it was 10 years ago. Developers would like you know, to get raises. You know, like in every other industry. So that they could do stuff like PAY THEIR BILLS.

Everyone always thinks it's about corporate greed, sometimes it really is, most of the time it's not. Making better games costs more money, inflation rises, people want raises. Use your fucking head.

Sorry man but you argument isn't truthful. You have way better tools at your disposal today. Engines like UE3/4 , Cryengine etc. They have a lot of assets already build into them so level designers can jump to work from day one. Computers are faster, coding is streamlined etc. I'd bet my ballz that it is easier for a coder to make a game today than it was 10 years ago so yea, you are expect to make a better looking game within a same timeframe. You are payed as much as you would be 10 years ago, if not more, and user base for sales is larger than it was 10 years ago, and publishers save on boxes and whatnot.

Without knowing a damn thing about using UE3 engine, I got my hands on student version and fiddled around a bit and created some stuff that actually works. And I am a graphics designer, a photoshop and illustrator with zero affinity and skills in coding.

Either today's coders are far less educated/skilled than coders were 15 years ago (yes, not everyone is John Carmack, I know that), or they are just using the wrong tools (or even worse, lazy).
When I look at some AAA titles out there that work good, look good, and compare them with some others that cost more, don't look as good, don't work at all (as in, they are released but they are really a mess not even worthy of the name "alpha"), I wonder how come?
Higher price tag is not justified at all. The Witcher was never 80$ and was always better (technologically) than anything else out there. Same goes for Crysis.
Now if you want to try and tell me that Frostbyte dudes that recycle assets and models and pretty much everything for years, deserve 80$ for the same game they already sold me last year - well, cool, but I say they can shove it up their asses.

Better tools doesn't really help you make better graphics. Sure a render engine will allow you to HAVE better graphics, but you have to put in the effort to MAKE it look better.

http://www.bitrebels.com/entertainment/video-games-then-and-now-a-mind-twisting-comparison/

Genoism(09:52 PM CEST - Aug,21 2015 )
Tom> @gx-x Perhaps...I'll have to check things out. I have wanted to replace the mobo but I've been too f'ing lazy.


@genoism, gx-x. Dude, that's what devs do today, they make excuses to substantiate the market they are F'ing over and their over inflated bank accounts. Half of them are hacks who don't even have a proper education. Dev's these days lie like 10x more to the public than a fucking politician does. Spread misinformation, do interviews and lie out their asses. It's about making money. Look at activision and COD, EA and BF. It's about money not making a quality game. My respect goes to Indie devs not these big fat bloated companies that make money hand over fist with the same code base over and over again.

I am an indie dev, and i know i would never be able to make the same kind of quality that a AAA+ game can.

gx-x(01:39 AM CEST - Aug,22 2015 )
Genoism> Tom> @gx-x Perhaps...I'll have to check things out. I have wanted to replace the mobo but I've been too f'ing lazy.


@genoism, gx-x. Dude, that's what devs do today, they make excuses to substantiate the market they are F'ing over and their over inflated bank accounts. Half of them are hacks who don't even have a proper education. Dev's these days lie like 10x more to the public than a fucking politician does. Spread misinformation, do interviews and lie out their asses. It's about making money. Look at activision and COD, EA and BF. It's about money not making a quality game. My respect goes to Indie devs not these big fat bloated companies that make money hand over fist with the same code base over and over again.

I am an indie dev, and i know i would never be able to make the same kind of quality that a AAA+ game can.

How about you take a look at Limit Theory for instance. One man indie army. Sure, he had some issues lately but not with coding. One man is making (already made) best space sim ever. One man. With 150K$.

Secondly, coders don't make graphics, designers do. Main problem with indie devs is they try to do everything and if I learned anything in my life, it is that coders can't design. They have no "feel" for taste. So if I give you a good 4K texture with all needed parts, (specular, displacement, paralax etc) all you need to do is apply it, and it easier than it was 10 years ago.
Modelers do the same, they give you models with more polygons that can now be rendered and easily imported. They will also animate them, give you bones etc.
Excuse me but your coding job also got easier, like I said, more streamlined. We also have affordable 3D scanners, hi-res cameras etc. The amount of time remains the same, it's just that I, as a designer of, say, textures, don't have to worry about if the tile is going to be 2kb or 20kb and I can put a lot into 18KB more, or nothing at all, I can just be lazy.

I guess that is my point. When I modeled weapons for Quake 2 I was limited to 2K polygons, I would have to take my model and nerf it. Today, I don't need to. A modeler that made first gears of war models had hi poly count models to start with and had to reduce poly count, now he doesn't have to.
There is LESS things to do today, and MORE tools to do it.
It's actually coders that mess things up today.

Of course you can't make AAA game as indie dev, you need a plan and a team. You can't work alone and make a good product. No one is expecting you to.
And by the way, save for few titles, the AAA bar is set pretty low at the moment. :)

Indie devs rarely make a good game these days because they lack direction. They have a vision of the final product but not the whole direction. They need artwork, they need much more than just code code code. Of course you can't compete with 20 2D artists working with 20 3d artists to create assets and then telling to 20 coders how those things should work.
But you don't need that many people. That bunch is inefficient, and I stand by that.
Another example: Path Of Exile versus Diablo 3. GGG (POE) didn't even have a kickstarter back then, they smoke Blizzard out of the water. There is like 10 of them now, 4 of them when they started. But they were a good team, good balance, good direction. In the end, coders responsible for the engine are the worst. But hey, game lives and they are making money.

Tom(03:35 AM CEST - Aug,22 2015 )
Indie should be more respected than big gouging companies like EA.

Inflation is just an excuse for big bloated software companies to make more money. They don't make better games. They make the same shit over and over again. Pro's at suckering n00bs to keep buying the same shit over and over again for a stupid price tag. Indie don't ask usually for such costs and their games are usually pretty good. I rather support a starting dev then some fat cat software company.

@gx-x
My Mushkin sucks it seems. I thought they were better I'm looking at Ripjaws. USB3 support sucks with my case I am using, most of what I hate of this mobo. I hate reaching behind my pc. It's been a reliable mobo.

gx-x(03:43 AM CEST - Aug,22 2015 )
Tom> Indie should be more respected than big gouging companies like EA.

Inflation is just an excuse for big bloated software companies to make more money. They don't make better games. They make the same shit over and over again. Pro's at suckering n00bs to keep buying the same shit over and over again for a stupid price tag. Indie don't ask usually for such costs and their games are usually pretty good. I rather support a starting dev then some fat cat software company.

@gx-x
My Mushkin sucks it seems. I thought they were better I'm looking at Ripjaws. USB3 support sucks with my case I am using, most of what I hate of this mobo. I hate reaching behind my pc. It's been a reliable mobo.

I told you, mobo is fine, you can buy 200000$ worth of ram and it wont make a difference, trust me. Try to maintain the settings you have now (in BF) and put 560 in instead of 960 and you will see that it is not 9 fps difference, I am guessing, and betting, game detected 960 and upped AA, textures and stuff like that. There is no way that there would be so little difference between 560 and 960, it's impossible!
It would be possible if you were using athlonXP I guess...

Tom(04:12 AM CEST - Aug,22 2015 )
gx-x> Tom> Indie should be more respected than big gouging companies like EA.

Inflation is just an excuse for big bloated software companies to make more money. They don't make better games. They make the same shit over and over again. Pro's at suckering n00bs to keep buying the same shit over and over again for a stupid price tag. Indie don't ask usually for such costs and their games are usually pretty good. I rather support a starting dev then some fat cat software company.

@gx-x
My Mushkin sucks it seems. I thought they were better I'm looking at Ripjaws. USB3 support sucks with my case I am using, most of what I hate of this mobo. I hate reaching behind my pc. It's been a reliable mobo.

I told you, mobo is fine, you can buy 200000$ worth of ram and it wont make a difference, trust me. Try to maintain the settings you have now (in BF) and put 560 in instead of 960 and you will see that it is not 9 fps difference, I am guessing, and betting, game detected 960 and upped AA, textures and stuff like that. There is no way that there would be so little difference between 560 and 960, it's impossible!
It would be possible if you were using athlonXP I guess...

I know the mobo is good, I don't plan to replace it. My ram isn't that bad either, but I could squeeze a little more out of the bus. I'll check what my fps are. I'll check these games again, you could be right. Maybe reset. Or that Nvidia Experience BS overriding things.

~pc vs console

My point was that a $200 card won't cut it. Eventually if you are going to be serious PC gaming, you want a $400 card (and that is retarded). A console is $400. I assure you a lot of people say, f that, I'm getting a console. People don't want to be arsed swapping out video cards, they rather replace a console. 60FPS means nothing and/or will soon. Keyb/mouse excuse is going to be pointless soon enough. If MS offered dual boot on Xbone to Win10. I'm sorry but most looking for a PC upgrade will likely equate a console to being sufficient. A market that Sony retards threw away. PC gaming is for real enthusiasts has been and will continue to be, as long as you have a bigger wallet. If you want max quality and performance. Unfortunately that market is small and shrinking because people like me are getting fed-up of being ripped off for small gain.

~

I'm done, Indie vs Fat-Cat conversation. gx-x raises good points. EA and Activision don't make spectacular games, they make games with good marketing budgets. Their games are shit quality and really nothing new. BF and COD perfect examples.

Thudo(04:55 AM CEST - Aug,23 2015 )
Yer never gonna convince anyone to give up consoles over a PC for the stated reasons I've given in that other thread where I laid it all out in point-form. However, there is one other reason bad reason to have a console: you cannot mod it to run games to which you don't, ahemm, own. This is a HUGE negative especially since the library available online is immense and its NOT hard to find it if you know where to look. This alone will save thousands per year in costs, but, that's for those whom are diligent because, oh, I learned high-end apps like Photoshop and Sound Forge because I could "afford to".. 8) Best you'll get on Xbone and PS4 are ghey-arse trialware BS because they're no where close to being broken. Gawd damn sad really as we're, what, 2-3 years in and still nada? Lammmeeeeee.. Meanwhile.. [looks to PC and massively ever-growing lib per month of content]..

PS.. as for the money aspect.. I meant REAL WORKFLOW APPS that can save or make you money.. not kindergarden BS thank you! Stuff you can learn by running it with tuts online unlocked then take it, oh, into the REAL BUSINESS WORLD which can command some serious coin. Jeezz.. I wonder whose done that for a decade+? Hmmm.. :D

El_Coyote(06:31 PM CEST - Aug,23 2015 )
Who gives a shit anyway.
Why would you waste time trying to convert people from one platform to another?
There is nothing in it for you, other than trying to justify your own choices.

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