Windows 7 users won't let go of the aging OS

Updated:08:57 AM CEST May,11

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Gameguru Mania News - May,03 2019 -

Windows 7 users won't let go of the aging OS - tech
(hx) 03:26 PM CEST - May,03 2019 - Post a comment / read (29)
Analytics company NetMarketShare’s latest figures show that while Windows 10’s market share continues to climb, it is doing so at a slower pace. It went from 43.62 percent in March to 44.10 percent in April. And while Windows 7 declined, it did so by just 0.09 percent—from 36.52 percent to 36.43 percent. It was only in December that Windows 10 finally surpassed Windows 7 to become the most popular version of the operating system. Surprisingly, the older OS experienced slight growth in February, but has been falling since then, though not as quickly as Microsoft wants. Windows 7 will no longer receive extended security updates on January 14, 2020. After this point, the only users to receive them will be business and education customers willing to pay the high prices. In an attempt to get more people to migrate to Windows 10, Microsoft started sending out courtesy reminders last month. These contain a link to pages that offer advice on how to prepare for Windows 7's last days and encourage people to upgrade to Windows 10 or buy a new PC.

last 10 comments:

Penetreitor	(03:36 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )
I've tried several times to switch to W10, but I don't want to lose control over my PC, I don't want forcefull updates, I don't want the OS don't allow me to decide my firewall rules (or override them), I don't want the OS perform activities without MY AUTHORIZATION.

heretic

(03:38 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )

I think something needs to be said about this. Windows 10 has made some tangible improvements over its predecessors, but most of those are under the hood kernel performance optimizations/security enhancements that are largely invisible to the average user and for that matter, average use cases.

Unfortunately, most of the noticeable changes in Windows 10 have resulted in a severe downgrade of user experience. The perpetual beta experience being one of them, along with UI changes that make navigating the OS less intuitive (more clicks required), broken features, and just all around dumb things like bundling even the Pro version of the OS with crapware like Candy Crush.

My customers often ask me this question: "Mr Radek, why my 6-7 years old notebook (i3, SSD, 8GB RAM) with Windows 7 Pro + SSD runs much better than new expensive powerfull notebook (i5, SSD, 8GB RAM) with Windows 10 Pro?" It's really hard to exaplain sometime.

Besides try this, take a new installed PC with Windows 10 OS and start it..and..during booting process few times press reset button. The result? Dead OS :-) I want to say, I'm suprised how often Window 10 completely crashes on customer's computers...nothing like Windows 7 which I installed and never heard about customer again many years.

Tom	(03:50 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )
No, people are just fucking stupid and they listen to other stupid fucking clueless people. That's all. I have not had a single problem with W10. You two just need to grow a pair and quit your fucking whining like babies. And most of all you're tiring.

Csimbi

(05:31 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )

quote:
Windows 7 users won't let go of the aging OS
Of course they won't.
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
Why should anyone cash out money for something or go into the trouble to migrate to a new platform that has no value to them?
Nobody sane installs a new OS just to get a new version of a web browser.
I pay for proven value, or install a new OS because I see value in it and not because someone is yapping about something that in his/her opinion might be a better choice for me (which, is usually not the case).
Same as with games.

For the record, I do have a batch of VL licenses (yes, legal, got them dirt cheap, about 8 euros per license) so when the time does come, I can switch everyone here.
But so far, it ain't worth it to me or anyone else in this building.
That's the general consensus around here, whether Microsoft likes it or not.
So, yeah, I fully agree with NetMarketShare's assessment.

lorcro2000

(08:14 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )

Windows 10 is actually a really great OS. Stable, fast, nice feature set, etc. The only downside is the pervasive spying and the way Microsoft plays fast and loose with quality, the Win 10 Home users are their beta testers. Literally. Stuff gets released to the Win 10 Home users first to see if it breaks, and if it doesn't, some months later it hits the corporate users.

If Microsoft hadn't turned it into spy central and taken away people's control (although you can claw some back with stuff like W10Privacy) it would no doubt be hugely more popular. Because the OS itself is, as I said, very nice to use even though it's only halfway through its shape shift to the new look and feel.

Personally if I were on Windows 7 and needed an upgrade from there, I'd just go Linux. KDE Plasma is pretty damned awesome, and gaming on Linux is progressing in leaps and bounds, because people want out from under Microsoft's yoke.

lorcro2000

(08:18 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )

heretic> Besides try this, take a new installed PC with Windows 10 OS and start it..and..during booting process few times press reset button. The result? Dead OS :-) I want to say, I'm suprised how often Window 10 completely crashes on customer's computers...nothing like Windows 7 which I installed and never heard about customer again many years.

Since Windows 10 doesn't come fully installed and only installs itself when you start your new computer, doing resets in the middle of the installation process is pretty damned silly. Anyone who does that on purpose just to test things is not being very clever. If you do hardware resets in the middle of a Linux or MacOS install as well I can almost guarantee you'll do real damage to that install and have to start over.

heretic

(08:33 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )

lorcro2000> heretic> Besides try this, take a new installed PC with Windows 10 OS and start it..and..during booting process few times press reset button. The result? Dead OS :-) I want to say, I'm suprised how often Window 10 completely crashes on customer's computers...nothing like Windows 7 which I installed and never heard about customer again many years.

Since Windows 10 doesn't come fully installed and only installs itself when you start your new computer, doing resets in the middle of the installation process is pretty damned silly. Anyone who does that on purpose just to test things is not being very clever. If you do hardware resets in the middle of a Linux or MacOS install as well I can almost guarantee you'll do real damage to that install and have to start over.

I didn't mean install process :roll: I wrote about regular start of fully installed Windows OS. What I wanted to say is fact that previous Windows OS weren't so fragile like Windows 10.

Sure hard reset is not nice, nobody should do it. But it's possible to lose power during a storm or just bad luck or little kids...you never know. However, you should not loose whole OS in this case. Classical scenario with Windows 10 is message that Windows going to repair...and after 30-60minutes you have another message--- Windows cannot be repaired.

gx-x

(09:40 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )

not this again, smh...

windows 7 user complaining about firewall in win10 while 7 is like swiss cheese.
windows 10 telemetry problem...Lazy people wouldn't even use google to search for app to disable it, but not lazy when it comes to win 7 upkeep. And of course, they complain about constant updates, because they never actually got one for win 7 since 2005. They even pay for AV and crap like that bcs fuck free and not useless win 10 defender and firewall.

Oh the irony...

I like(ed) win 7, but it's takes a lot more time to manage than win10 that you setup once and you are dooneeee

Csimbi	(10:59 PM CEST - May,03 2019 )
Well, yes, the lack of decent firewall for Windows 10 is a major problem. Anyone found a decent replacement for Agnitum Outpost Pro?

gx-x

(12:04 AM CEST - May,04 2019 )

win 10 doesn't have a very strict firewall, but at least it does something, unlike the one in win7 which is useless. In win 7, you need a 3rd party app for almost everything. That's how "perfect" it is.

Personally, in win 10 I use default firewall settings, windows defender and that's it. I use free malware bytes scanner once now and then to check the system for malware just in case, and it has been clean...since forever...
Hell, I even disabled online sample submissions and all that additional stuff, no need...Good luck with using default win 7 firewall and security suite...I mean, it is possible but it takes a lot of time to set up bunch of things manually, and firewall is incurable, you just have to get some 3rd party app to control it, like Look'n'stop , I couldn't have lived without that app.

Csimbi

(10:19 AM CEST - May,04 2019 )

Win7 firewall sucks, aye.
Agnitum Outpost is the best choice for Windows 7, aye.
Sophos did buy some Agnitum IP, but they provide free software appliances (which requires dedicated hardware) and sell hardware firewalls.

I am wondering if there is an equal for Agnitum Outpost on Windows 10 out there already. A standalone software solution that runs locally. Intuitive, easy to use, high performance and stops all the crap out there.

I searched around a while, but I have not found any conclusive evidence that there is a worthy firewall out there.
These seem to be popular according to unreliable review sites:
- GlassWire
- ZoneAlarm
- TinyWall (not a real firewall, rather, a Win10 firewall configurator, but has not been updated since 2016).

Then, I found Private Winten, which is a privacy tool + a Win10 firewall configurator in one. (this one is actively developed but it early stages at the moment)

Have any of you tried/used any of these?

The lack of a firewall is a showstopper for Win10 around here, we'd like to be in control, not Microsoft and the US government.

Thanks!

gx-x	(10:32 AM CEST - May,04 2019 )
I did find some firewall control app some time back but it was a mess, too restrictive and what not. So I gave up. Default controls are good enough for me, and I disabled all hidden win telemetry (I am not linking the app again!) and crap I didn't want and that's it for me. but you do have this if you really want more control https://www.binisoft.org/wfc.php

Csimbi	(10:37 AM CEST - May,04 2019 )
Aye, I missed that from the list. Have you tried BiniSoft WFC? It is also a Windows firewall configurator.

gx-x

(11:31 AM CEST - May,04 2019 )

yes, I linked it in the previous post...it's malwarebytes now, got bought...

edit: but seriously, If you use a decent adblocker in browser, you really have no need for min-maxing the firewall, just set the win10 default one to "public" and you are good to go. Then again, I don't use darkweb or stuff like that.

PS. I am NOT trying to tell you how to use your own computer, I just find that being too paranoid (I was there...) is really not accomplishing much, you just waste a lot of time for nothing.

Other than that, I agree that first win 10 release or prerelease was a disaster GUI wise. No start menu, no this no that...That got fixed but permissions on files and folders are still a disaster and lack of features that used to exist in explorer is also crap. As Heretic said: extra clicks are now required compared to win7/8.1 and so on. Metro is a big miss imho, at least for users that know what they are doing.
But I am really not having any security issues. Imho, it's better than win7 was. I don't use 3rd party apps anymore, which cost a lot of money...

Csimbi

(12:27 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )

Malwarebytes bought it earlier, it seems and there's a new release here, too:
quote:
Version: 6.0.2.0
Date: 04 March, 2019

Anyway, the question is: are any of these any good (I found reviews are either shit or heavily biased these days)?
Does the Windows firewall stop
- all forms of attacks
- all Windows components or did the government leave a backdoor for hackers?

Threats don't come from the browser only - they come from the OS itself and the network. Plus, I don't want Windows report everything I do.
Have you noticed, for example that every time you start an installer (setup.exe), a connection is made outside?

Well, being somewhat paranoid ensured thus far that my PC never got hacked (or any other PC around here for that matter). Albeit, users not clicking on shit in their emails helps a lot :P

gx-x

(01:16 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )

what it does (WFC) is let you f**k up the firewall rules completely. By default, firewall only let's you use 8080 and few other commonly open ports and only for applications you had to click to let on the internet. You can always open firewall CP and check yourself what is allowed, what is not. WFC will just give you those with few less clicks. It uses the in-built firewall so that's that. By default, when you install it, it will ask you to allow deny every single outgoing and incoming connection. Most of those are already sorted by default in windows firewall, but when you install WFC it removes those rules and asks you to participate in enabling/disabling them.

As for installers: they do open connections, always did (for a long time). The thing is, I install updates, driver updates and that's that. I really have no issue with opened temporary connection. In case you DL some app installer, it is normal for it to go to internet and download components that it needs, is it not? Anyhow, it (windows) will ask you do you want it to allow to execute that (unless you disabled DAP and such because you don't like to be pestered with extra clicks, then the lack of security is on you. I disable those things for everything save for kernel level access)

Also, once again, I used that app to disable windows telemetry, reporting home and everything else that I have no benefit from but win10 wants to do. It's one DL, 10 seconds of ticking checkboxes, immunizing hosts file and a restart. This application is essential to me personally. But thats as far as my paranoia goes + i have more stable ping in games, no sudden spikes bcs windows is doing something on the web :D

So that app and adblocker ultimate in browser is good enough for me. No problems so far. Last problem I had was last year with that 1809 update. But it's my fault. It wasn't offered to me but I went ahead got it and installed it anyway. Worked fine for a few weeks then it started, I don't remember what exactly was the problem but I reinstalled win 10 anyway.

quote:
Does the Windows firewall stop
- all forms of attacks

dude :) nothing does that :D

Penetreitor	(02:16 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )
Another big cons on Win10 is, I can easily backup, restore, copy, move to another PC, a W7 partition with freeware, and this is not possible (for I know) with W10

Csimbi

(02:48 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )

gx-x> immunizing hosts file
I read somewhere that Windows bypasses the hosts file for quite a few lookups.
Has that changed?
*Edit*
Here's the link:
https://www.petri.com/windows-10-ignoring-hosts-file-specific-name-resolution

gx-x>

quote:
Does the Windows firewall stop
- all forms of attacks

dude :) nothing does that :D
Agnitum Outpost did. Albeit, it was Russian-made, so they knew what the US government left open ;-)

Penetreitor> Another big cons on Win10 is, I can easily backup, restore, copy, move to another PC, a W7 partition with freeware, and this is not possible (for I know) with W10
What about just unplugging the drive and plugging it back, as is?
Would that work?

Then taking a 1:1 copy of the disk to another, identical disk should work, too.

gx-x

(02:56 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )

using something like partition magic to clone a partition or a drive, as long as you clone all boot partitions that are hidden (UEFI etc) will work 100%. I've done it many times and people that deal with laptop repairs do it all the time. Granted, if you are doing it with 2TB HDD it is a pain, but so is every other way on any system.

But, with partition magic you can just choose to migrate OS to another drive that you have connected and is empty and you are good to go.

quote:
Agnitum Outpost did. Albeit, it was Russian-made, so they knew what the US government left open Wink

the people that made it could hack it. See my point? Nothing will ever protect you 100%, not even a disconnected network cable :D

PS. expecting such a high security feature with 0 user interaction or annoyance is near impossible. And to get it for 50~100$ with OS? Well, I guess you can just remove network cable or use VM all the time, that should do it, to an extent, and at price...

NakedFaerie

(06:13 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )

There are many things you cant do in W10. Widgets for one.
There are many apps that don't work in W10. WMC for one.
There are many hardware devices that don't work in W10. My USB scanner for one. (CMC machines work better on W7. I know a few refuse to work on W10 so for a business W10 is a huge no no.
There are many reasons why W7 is the best. Security for one. It gives M$ less control and you full control where W10 M$ have full control and you get screwed all the time.

I've got a Surface Pro 2 and its got W10 but an old version. I had to heavily modify it so it doesn't update as so far the 3 times I've tried to update it, its completely screwed things up. I always have video card problems, keyboard problems, half the apps just disappear and half just won't work. Screw that.
Its a M$ device and they cant even make an OS for their own devices. Pathetic.
My PC will stay on W7 even after M$ have killed it as its the best for what I need my PC to do.

NakedFaerie	(06:13 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )
why does this site always double or triple post? Its happened twice in the last week.

heretic	(06:26 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )
NakedFaerie> why does this site always double or triple post? Its happened twice in the last week. Too sensitive mouse button? :D

gx-x

(07:07 PM CEST - May,04 2019 )

NakedFaerie> There are many things you cant do in W10. Widgets for one.
There are many apps that don't work in W10. WMC for one.
There are many hardware devices that don't work in W10. My USB scanner for one. (CMC machines work better on W7. I know a few refuse to work on W10 so for a business W10 is a huge no no.
There are many reasons why W7 is the best. Security for one. It gives M$ less control and you full control where W10 M$ have full control and you get screwed all the time.

I've got a Surface Pro 2 and its got W10 but an old version. I had to heavily modify it so it doesn't update as so far the 3 times I've tried to update it, its completely screwed things up. I always have video card problems, keyboard problems, half the apps just disappear and half just won't work. Screw that.
Its a M$ device and they cant even make an OS for their own devices. Pathetic.
My PC will stay on W7 even after M$ have killed it as its the best for what I need my PC to do.

seems like "you" problem. There is newer wmc, it's no longer wmc but the apps from wmc exist, newer ones.

the rest from your list is pretty much the same, you just don't know how to do something. even widgets exist, hell, live wallpapers exist still. And on top of it, what is "Metro" if not the new cancer widget holder?

Csimbi	(01:06 PM CEST - May,07 2019 )
Meanwhile: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/shipping-a-linux-kernel-with-windows/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/introducing-windows-terminal/ You know where it's all heading, right? I wonder when will they start calling it Winux 1.0. Bottom line: Window 10 was the last Windows indeed. As of next summer, Windows is no more.

gx-x	(01:43 PM CEST - May,07 2019 )
it doesn't really matter. Linux has became more windows than windows linux. It was and still is, the only way for Linux to have any users. I remember the Linux in which I had to manually create shortcuts to drives. Yes, Mac and Windows feature is now a standard in Linux too.

Csimbi	(02:12 PM CEST - May,07 2019 )
I wonder what it will mean from IT management perspective though...

gx-x	(02:17 PM CEST - May,07 2019 )
I don't think they will have an issue at all. You are managing desktop machines for people that work in sales, or something like that. If FB works, it's all fine.

Csimbi	(05:56 PM CEST - May,07 2019 )
gx-x> If FB works, it's all fine. Good one, lol We manage R&D PCs, too and those guys like both their Windows and Linux as far as I can tell. I guess time will tell how it all spans out; MS might be updating SCCM/Intune with proper Linux support in the future...

gx-x	(06:00 PM CEST - May,07 2019 )
According to my friend in tech, new windows will have ability to use linux stuff, something about having two kernels...he linked some document 20 pages or so, so I didn't read it at all.

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