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 Gameguru Mania News - May,06 2006 -  
The AGEIA-Havok War..(cough.)..Debate! - tech
(hx) 02:08 AM CEST - May,06 2006 - Post a comment / read (12)
Earlier this week, Havok sounded off on physics usage in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter specifically dealing with AGEIA's PhysX card. In particular Havok cited claims by users of lower frame rates once PhysX was applied to the game. In this article AGEIA responds to the FPS reports, as well as clarifying physics usage in GRAW and game consoles. Here's an excerpt:
AGEIA: Consider first that PhysX is focused on enabling an entirely new experience in gaming in which literally 1,000s of objects of differenct types can move, collide and interact. Up to now, this has not been possible. The goal of PhysX is to enable this new class of complex physics algorithms to be processed within a more than acceptable frame rate. Of course, depending on the game and the PhysX implementation and the rendering capabilities of the system, there may be occasional momentary frame rate impact, but on average, we don't expect this to be significant.

It's unclear how this individual measured frame rate impact, however we aren't keeping our heads in the sand. We appreciate feedback from the gamer community and based partly on comments like the one above, we have identified an area in our driver where fine tuning positively impacts frame rate. We made an adjustment quickly and delivered it in a new driver (2.4.3) which is available for download at ageia.com today. That's the beauty of the PhysX solution. A powerful processor is in place now and a flexible software solution is there to continue improving the PhysX experience for our customers. Buy a PhysX accelerator today and it keeps getting better.
last 10 comments:
xxxx(07:51 AM CEST - May,06 2006 )
quote:
the PhysX implementation and the rendering capabilities of the system, there may be occasional momentary frame rate impact, but on average, we don't expect this to be significant.

What a crock of crap! There shouldn't be any momentary rate impact because the card would already be in systems easily capable of running a games so gimme a break.. and considering the PhysX card is supposed to be doing the work and nothing else you would imagine that the overall system health would be much better and less likely to lag. It would seem to me this card continues to use other system resources...

El_Coyote(10:46 AM CEST - May,06 2006 )
consider havoc rendering 100 physics objects in a scene.
Then consider Ageia redndering 1000.
Those objects still have to be rendered by the graphics card too(not fun with 1000's of invisible physics objects), so of course theres going to be a hit on the framerate.

the hit on performance however, is nothing compared to what havoc would drain of ressources if it had to do the same amount of work.(not even counting that those objects would have to be rendered by the gfx too)

Nosferatu(10:57 AM CEST - May,06 2006 )
The fact that Havok charges 100's of thousands of dollars for their software and Ageia provides the PhysX SDK for free could be a very strong point. That's considering Ageia also has bits of code ready for developers to implement certain effects. You almost have to find a place in a game where this would be useful and fits well and... plug it in. However maybe I'm wrong, but... I have a feeling Ageia won't die, that they are on the right way.

(11:05 AM CEST - May,06 2006 )
I guess I won't be buying a PhysX card anytime soon. Too expensive for me right now....

I'll consider buying either a PhysX card or a graphics card with a PhysX chip built-in when I buy my new system next year. (Q1/2007)

Sabot(02:01 PM CEST - May,06 2006 )
This physX....... is just old-hat. We've had deformation and fully destructable environments for years in games! That is why AGEIA will fall flat. A load of sparkly visual effects -rendered by a PPU- is just not doing anything original for games today.

GAMEPLAY is number one , not a tech demo with a free game attached.

We've also been playing HAVOK based games with no complaint from the community -how much MORE do you want? Last i read is gamers wanting originality in games and less of the bull****!!

When we have games that return to the 'old days' of quality time then we can think about improving upon it with PhysX (or whatever exists) Instead of this 8hour gameplay and then tart it up (or is it keep the empty player awake) with a whole load of pyrotechnics.

Easily amused is getting contagious.

lmer(02:29 PM CEST - May,06 2006 )
IMHO, we'll soon see games with excesive explosion/particle effects and physics affected water surfaces, sh*t like that. And in all that excess..this hardware will find it's use. But when the Oohs and Aahhs go thin, the developers will cut down on exageration, and purpose of this hardware will go thin.

Because, theres just not very much *more* you can do with physics. At this time we allready have pretty complex physics engines which affect a great deal of the enviroments. Soon we'll have faster CPU's or maybe that GPU physics implementation everyone is talking about, and there will be enough power for the fully evolved physics engines. AFter that, there isn't really much more space for physics, right?

So, yeah, i think that buying this overpriced piece of hardware is really STUPID. But hx is gonna have to buy it either way for reviewing most of the upcomming crap. :P

// EDIT

Oh, by the way, Stumpus said it. We've had most of the features this HW advertises for years, powered by our CPUs. We can really only go over the top now.

Anonymous(02:42 PM CEST - May,06 2006 )
DELETED

Sabot(05:09 PM CEST - May,06 2006 )
Oh billie put a cock in it, as you can see we talk more sense than you.

Your theory is lying burning all over your hand-made shoes -as can be noted from the actual test http://www.techamok.com/?pid=829 regarding the wonders of a hardware and software test ; oh shock of shocks! Software spanks the hardware PPUs ass. This is just not on, if you bought a graphics card that premiered with such shocking results thee would be law suits left-right & centre.

You sure you weren't involved with AGEIA? I mean it's just like you to talk-the-talk

As for theory,You know what that did? stuck it's ass out the window and waved goodbye 8)

So as you where saying? "Ladies and Gentlemen; Bill has left the building with a timely software crash" Nothing new there eh :lol:

xxxx(05:04 AM CEST - May,07 2006 )
As I said. The card is a crock. It does nothing for gaming. Maybe if the card was $50, I'd consider it just for thrills but at the price they are asking.. Take a hike!

Anonymous(05:46 AM CEST - May,07 2006 )
DELETED

Sabot(05:45 PM CEST - May,07 2006 )
Bill don't get your knickers in a twist :roll: i was returning the patronising bull**** that you have thrown back at us; Calling us "ladies" isn't a personal attack then? Yeah your big to dish out the crap but oops can't handle a wee bit in return... By the way "put a cock in it" is a twist on "put a sock in it" -if your old enough then you should know the fun side of that slang....
The rest of the slagging goes for calling yourself 'Bill Gates' (in my post; "hand made shoes" another piss take as Bill always promises but never delivers and always sounds so damn patronising...)

RE: deformable terrain etc 'Far Cry' left craters in the sand when you threw a grenade (deformation it is)
'Soldiers Heroes of WW2' 2004 had full deformable everything! Buildings,trees,telgraph poles,vehicles and terrain could be deformed or completely destroyed one way or the other. You could bring a building down wall-by-wall,floor-by-floor untill it was just rubble with tank rounds.

So yes we've had deformation for while. whether it's one or two games it's still been done.

lmer(06:48 PM CEST - May,07 2006 )
Actually the first game, i think, that had deformable geometry was the first hitman back in 2000. In that one mission where you come to kill the narc boss in the jungle, the plants have deformable leaves when you pass trough them. Plus you two girls need to get laid ASAP.

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