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 Gameguru Mania News - Sep,24 2013 -  
NVIDIA Interview: The Sky Isn't Falling - tech
(hx) 04:43 PM CEST - Sep,24 2013 - Post a comment / read (25)
I'm not sure why people feel the need to explain that it's "no longer possible" for consoles to have better graphics than a PC".
PCPP: In the past, when a new console launched, the graphics were on par, if not even better, than a reasonably well-specced PC of the time. Yet at this year's E3, we noticed that the Xbox One and PS4 demos didn't look as good as the earlier PC demos of the same games. Do you think the lead that consoles had in the past at launch day is over?

Tamasi: It's no longer possible for a console to be a better or more capable graphics platform than the PC. I'll tell you why. In the past, certainly with the first PlayStation and PS2, in that era there weren't really good graphics on the PC. Around the time of the PS2 is when 3D really started coming to the PC, but before that time 3D was the domain of Silicon Graphics and other 3D workstations. Sony, Sega or Nintendo could invest in bringing 3D graphics to a consumer platform. In fact, the PS2 was faster than a PC.

By the time of the Xbox 360 and PS3, the consoles were on par with the PC. If you look inside those boxes, they're both powered by graphics technology by AMD or NVIDIA, because by that time all the graphics innovation was being done by PC graphics companies. NVIDIA spends 1.5 billion US dollars per year on research and development in graphics, every year, and in the course of a console's lifecycle we'll spend over 10 billion dollars into graphics research. Sony and Microsoft simply can’t afford to spend that kind of money. They just don’t have the investment capacity to match the PC guys; we can do it thanks to economy of scale, as we sell hundreds of millions of chips, year after year.

The second factor is that everything is limited by power these days. If you want to go faster, you need a more efficient design or a bigger power supply. The laws of physics dictate that the amount of performance you're going to get from graphics is a function of the efficiency of the architecture, and how much power budget you're willing to give it. The most efficient architectures are from NVIDIA and AMD, and you're not going to get anything that is significantly more power efficient in a console, as it's using the same core technology. Yet the consoles have power budgets of only 200 or 300 Watts, so they can put them in the living room, using small fans for cooling, yet run quietly and cool. And that's always going to be less capable than a PC, where we spend 250W just on the GPU. There’s no way a 200W Xbox is going to be beat a 1000W PC.
last 10 comments:
Tom(07:28 PM CEST - Sep,24 2013 )
Console has never had better gfx than a PC. A PC even back then was capable of higher resolution, more color and great than 30fps. To drive higher than 30fps alone proves a PC card has more power. Back then I think we had GF2 or something which was close to a GF2/3 but still the output and depth of use in games was a lot more on PC than PS2. Maybe from a distance a PS2 looked good, but up close it was easy to discern it was console gfx. PC games had better gfx, beyond the power crap the rest is bull. I had more fun playing on my PC back then than PS2.

Thudo(04:32 AM CEST - Sep,25 2013 )
Indeed. Lest we mention that PCs can make you, oh.. MONEY??! ;) Consoles are great for semi-portable quick-fix easy-dumbed-down entertainment for the masses but if anything console better watch themselves as in a few more years smartphone and tablets could be taking over that part of the industry. Games for Apple and Android are creeping up there..

gx-x(05:34 PM CEST - Sep,25 2013 )
Thudo> Indeed. Lest we mention that PCs can make you, oh.. MONEY??! ;) Consoles are great for semi-portable quick-fix easy-dumbed-down entertainment for the masses but if anything console better watch themselves as in a few more years smartphone and tablets could be taking over that part of the industry. Games for Apple and Android are creeping up there..

they don't need to watch themselves bcs both microsoft and sony are making phones and tablets...

Thudo(06:22 PM CEST - Sep,25 2013 )
They aren't the only ones... ;) Anyway, the tech will likely merge in the future.

gx-x(09:01 PM CEST - Sep,25 2013 )
Thudo> They aren't the only ones... ;) Anyway, the tech will likely merge in the future.

yea, merge. I also think so.

Sabot(09:09 PM CEST - Sep,25 2013 )
no shit sherlock..... last i looked, graphics cards are going on a fucking foot long!! try and fit that into a console! The very fact that they are putting out, what.. GPU 7870 equivalent on a PS4t? is amazing since we put up with noisy leaf blowers that factory run in the 60-70-80C dept.
Dont even go down the statutory half dozen patches to try and optimise a PC game. Graphics are great when the games playable..
Stupid fucking topic....

Sabot(09:13 PM CEST - Sep,25 2013 )
no shit sherlock..... last i looked, graphics cards are going on a fucking foot long!! try and fit that into a console! The very fact that they are putting out, what.. GPU 7870 equivalent on a PS4t? is amazing since we put up with noisy leaf blowers that factory run in the 60-70-80C dept.
Dont even go down the statutory half dozen patches to try and optimise a PC game. Graphics are great when the games playable..
Stupid fucking topic....

Thudo(09:26 PM CEST - Sep,25 2013 )
If thats the case (most low-high PCs I build run decently quiet) then get a $2-3k gamer laptop and done! Patches are expected for COMPLEX games. Consoles are just.. simplified. Bah! Uniformity is good of course but I don't mind patches as I work in this kind of environment and BS happens. Fact of the biz but so long as their is an understood revision path then all is good.

Sabot(09:26 PM CEST - Sep,25 2013 )
Double post

Sabot(01:28 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Thudo> If thats the case (most low-high PCs I build run decently quiet) then get a $2-3k gamer laptop and done! Patches are expected for COMPLEX games. Consoles are just.. simplified. Bah! Uniformity is good of course but I don't mind patches as I work in this kind of environment and BS happens. Fact of the biz but so long as their is an understood revision path then all is good.

It's got nothing to do with high end, mid-range pcs. It's the stock fans on the cards that I'm talking about. I've been building for over two decades and you very rarely get a card where the manufacturer puts a decent whisper fan with sufficient cooling. Never understood that mentality. You pay several hundred or even close to a thousand on a card and they stick a frigging chip-set cooler on it or a bloody hair dryer!
Of course you can buy a gamer laptop for several K, but why? It's buying something that is massively inflated over a home build and is just silly.

Check out this shows how garbage it it.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards.13849.0.html

Thudo(01:30 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Never ever been bothered by the GPU cooler noise. If anything is gonna be loud are case and CPU fans.

A fast laptop is used for portability and flexibility.

Sabot(03:33 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Thudo> Never ever been bothered by the GPU cooler noise. If anything is gonna be loud are case and CPU fans.

A fast laptop is used for portability and flexibility.


Yes but you can change case fans for pennies, plus due to large case fans - mine is a thermaltake shark, they run silent (mine anyway) GPU noise is pretty prominent if you have a high end, mid range card. (Considering the GPU is the hardest worked component ) I wouldn't be posting otherwise. EVGA Geforce GTX 660 TI, plays anything I throw at it, but boy... What a noisy fucker! When playing flat out its fan is screaming to keep itself under 60c My I5 3570K barely goes over 30c.
That's why consoles/ tablets came out; for portable gaming. For 3K it's seriously OTT and hardly puts you in amongst the 'masses' :lol:

Thudo(03:43 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Like I said, I don't consider the GPU Cooler the loudest I have come across out of everything else running + its within the center of the case so the sound is dampened + even if there was a faint "droning sound" caused by it or other parts its moot. I and my associates get used to it especially based on the amount of productivity and money generated from its use. Consoles are just for brain-dead mindless entertainment. Thats it. Whereas a PC/Laptop I can do, well, REAL WORLD WORK that makes me coin BUT then I can load up a mindless game in a window. Good luck with all that and more on consoles BUT they make great boxes of fun @ the cottage on a rain day. ;)

gx-x(04:12 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Thudo> Like I said, I don't consider the GPU Cooler the loudest I have come across out of everything else running + its within the center of the case so the sound is dampened + even if there was a faint "droning sound" caused by it or other parts its moot. I and my associates get used to it especially based on the amount of productivity and money generated from its use. Consoles are just for brain-dead mindless entertainment. Thats it. Whereas a PC/Laptop I can do, well, REAL WORLD WORK that makes me coin BUT then I can load up a mindless game in a window. Good luck with all that and more on consoles BUT they make great boxes of fun @ the cottage on a rain day. ;)

If you have a decent PSU it will be totally silent. Decent CPU cooler (not box crap) - totally silent. Case fans? You only need two. One in fron to push air in, one at back to push air out. 140mm ones, noctua, doing ~900rpm at most = totally silent.

two things are left: hard drive(s) and graphics card. I opted for WD green series -totally silent. GPU is gainward 650ti boost - totally silent.

You can't tell that my PC is running, even if it's 4am and everything outside is dead silent.

on the other hand, it seems you are mining bit coins (ironic, since you live in Canada and get a real job) and that can be extremely loud bcs most cards that are good for mining are very loud (and all of them are AMD). There are much better solutions out there when it comes to mining coins...

PS. bit coin mining is not real world work. Try doing some construction work and you will notice the difference immediately :)

Sabot(06:06 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
The whole point I'm saying is, regardless of aftermarket parts, we shouldn't be buying *anything* to cool our expensive cards down, or making them quiet. Cases are open closed and this should be tested in development. You don't buy a car then have to upgrade the fan and radiator ... Its just pathetic.
I would rather drop,get stolen, a console than a 3k laptop. Try upgrading the graphics card on that every couple years? Cheap.... Not.
I think I'll try thishttp://lifehacker.com/5851902/turn-a-low+powered-laptop-into-a-gaming-machine-with-an-external-video-card-dock :wink:

Thudo(06:08 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Bitcoin?!?!? BAHAHAH! That Virtual Fake Economy which could be shut down at any moment like turning off a light bulb since it runs on.. oh... power? I'd rather do what civilization has sustainability done for thousands of years: buy Gold and Silver as when the sh!t really hits the fan thats what will only have value. Bitcoin is a modern un-sustainable super-highly vulnerable fad economy that won't last long because it relies too much on modern technology: which is badly fragile.

No I make money off my PC based on, well lets see... REAL WORLD WORK EXPERIENCE like virtualizing, SCCM, OS deployment, Wise/Installshield Packaging, Scripting/Coding, SQL, Server2012.. shall I continue? hehe.. Nope.. PC/laptops are for those who do REAL WORK in a REAL ECONOMY. I don't have time for stupid fads that MIGHT make me anywhere the coin I can make doing things legit.

gx-x(06:10 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Stumpus> The whole point I'm saying is, regardless of aftermarket parts, we shouldn't be buying *anything* to cool our expensive cards down, or making them quiet. Cases are open closed and this should be tested in development. You don't buy a car then have to upgrade the fan and radiator ... Its just pathetic.
I would rather drop,get stolen, a console than a 3k laptop. Try upgrading the graphics card on that every couple years? Cheap.... Not.
I think I'll try thishttp://lifehacker.com/5851902/turn-a-low+powered-laptop-into-a-gaming-machine-with-an-external-video-card-dock :wink:


dont fall for that. That thing doesn't have bandwidth required by any decent GPU.

Thudo(06:10 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
quote:
You don't buy a car then have to upgrade the fan and radiator ... Its just pathetic.
No actually I am so all for the modular car.. hell.. gimme a industry-size 3d Printer someday and LET ME PRINT ONE!! :twisted:

Well hope someday high-end CPU/GPUs would just need passive cooling but, yeah know, kinda hard I thought to go against something called, oh.. PHYSICS? :P

gx-x(06:13 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Thudo> Bitcoin?!?!? BAHAHAH! That Virtual Fake Economy which could be shut down at any moment like turning off a light bulb since it runs on.. oh... power? I'd rather do what civilization has sustainability done for thousands of years: buy Gold and Silver as when the sh!t really hits the fan thats what will only have value. Bitcoin is a modern un-sustainable super-highly vulnerable fad economy that won't last long because it relies too much on modern technology: which is badly fragile.

No I make money off my PC based on, well lets see... REAL WORLD WORK EXPERIENCE like virtualizing, SCCM, OS deployment, Wise/Installshield Packaging, Scripting/Coding, SQL, Server2012.. shall I continue? hehe.. Nope.. PC/laptops are for those who do REAL WORK in a REAL ECONOMY. I don't have time for stupid fads that MIGHT make me anywhere the coin I can make doing things legit.


Forgive me, I assumed you do bit coin mining. I was wrong, and I am glad I was wrong :)

PS. When shit hit's the fan you'll want water, food and medicine (and probably a gas mask and a blanket). You can't eat gold and no, I won't give you my food/water for your gold nugget. :)

PPS. I doubt you want plastic car radiator unless you want it melt down in an instant.
3D printers aren't as awesome as they are marketed to be. They just print overpriced plastic.

Thudo(06:17 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
quote:
PS. When shit hit's the fan you'll want water, food and medicine (and probably a gas mask and a blanket). You can't eat gold and no, I won't give you my food/water for your gold nugget.
You can't bargain with Food/Water like you can with Gold/Silver/Seed (yeah seeds kuzz agribusiness will be fcuked also and its up to us all to grow it or perish..). Food/Water is tradable community and Gold/Silver/Seeds can buy LOTS of it and Power if you can also protect it. [sorry.. major off-topic post-apocalyptic rant]

Yeah no Bitcoin BS.. FCUK THAT AND ROTATE... JACKTARDOM at its finest.

gx-x(06:24 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Well, I don't see any use for gold in ruined world. I also tend to think that most people are over "the shiny things", save for blacks and stupid women.

tbh, I'd rather hoard plutonium and uranium. Those can produce energy. Gold can't do shit.

Thudo(06:30 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Uhmm.. Gold/Silver won't well, lets see... KILL YOU?!?!? Both Plutonium and uranium do jack shiet unless you are an expert and can control those elements (good luck there). Read up on whats valuable after all hell happens: Gold/Silver for bartering/staving off gov't officials from re-possessing the house YOU THOUGHT you owned when money is worthless. Food/Water is all good of course to survive but you need more to trade with as long as you can.. protect them from thieves. ;)

gx-x(06:37 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Thudo> Uhmm.. Gold/Silver won't well, lets see... KILL YOU?!?!? Both Plutonium and uranium do jack shiet unless you are an expert and can control those elements (good luck there). Read up on whats valuable after all hell happens: Gold/Silver for bartering/staving off gov't officials from re-possessing the house YOU THOUGHT you owned when money is worthless. Food/Water is all good of course to survive but you need more to trade with as long as you can.. protect them from thieves. ;)

well, we obviously imagine this thing differently. You see, in post apocalyptic world I imagine, there IS NO HOUSE, it's rubble and you have to build a new one. Those radioactive elements won't kill me if handled properly (led casing, concrete etc) and I am not the that is going to build a reactor, I am just going to barter with it to those that can build a reactor and have the know-how's because the old ones (reactors) are gone.
I would also hoard solar panels and rechargeable batteries :D

Thudo(06:40 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
Your soo out of luck if its an X-Class Flare or EMP, bro. Technology won't work unless it was pre-hardened and good luck there: only military has that resolved years ago.

You are asking wayy too much for what will be a basic down-to-earth struggle. When power goes out: last thing you want to be is a hundred kms within where a Nuke Plant once stood.

Sabot(09:10 PM CEST - Sep,26 2013 )
gx-x> Stumpus> The whole point I'm saying is, regardless of aftermarket parts, we shouldn't be buying *anything* to cool our expensive cards down, or making them quiet. Cases are open closed and this should be tested in development. You don't buy a car then have to upgrade the fan and radiator ... Its just pathetic.
I would rather drop,get stolen, a console than a 3k laptop. Try upgrading the graphics card on that every couple years? Cheap.... Not.
I think I'll try thishttp://lifehacker.com/5851902/turn-a-low+powered-laptop-into-a-gaming-machine-with-an-external-video-card-dock :wink:


dont fall for that. That thing doesn't have bandwidth required by any decent GPU.


Only joking. I have a 6 year old dell core 2 duo. Lol

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