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 Gameguru Mania News - Mar,18 2011 -  
Farewell to DirectX? - tech
(hx) 09:46 PM CET - Mar,18 2011 - Post a comment / read (12)
The chaps over at Bit-Tech have posted an interview with AMD's developer relations manager of the GPU division called 'Farewell to DirectX?' Interesting stuff, definitely worth reading.
So what sort of performance-overhead are we talking about here? Is DirectX really that big a barrier to high-speed PC gaming? This, of course, depends on the nature of the game you're developing.

'It can vary from almost nothing at all to a huge overhead,' says Huddy. 'If you're just rendering a screen full of pixels which are not terribly complicated, then typically a PC will do just as good a job as a console. These days we have so much horsepower on PCs that on high-resolutions you see some pretty extraordinary-looking PC games, but one of the things that you don't see in PC gaming inside the software architecture is the kind of stuff that we see on consoles all the time.

On consoles, you can draw maybe 10,000 or 20,000 chunks of geometry in a frame, and you can do that at 30-60fps. On a PC, you can't typically draw more than 2-3,000 without getting into trouble with performance, and that's quite surprising - the PC can actually show you only a tenth of the performance if you need a separate batch for each draw call.

Now the PC software architecture – DirectX – has been kind of bent into shape to try to accommodate more and more of the batch calls in a sneaky kind of way. There are the multi-threaded display lists, which come up in DirectX 11 – that helps, but unsurprisingly it only gives you a factor of two at the very best, from what we've seen. And we also support instancing, which means that if you're going to draw a crate, you can actually draw ten crates just as fast as far as DirectX is concerned.

But it's still very hard to throw tremendous variety into a PC game. If you want each of your draw calls to be a bit different, then you can't get over about 2-3,000 draw calls typically - and certainly a maximum amount of 5,000. Games developers definitely have a need for that. Console games often use 10-20,000 draw calls per frame, and that's an easier way to let the artist's vision shine through.'
last 10 comments:
Ozieo(10:15 PM CET - Mar,18 2011 )
This is bullshit !
Koogle will explain that in a press conference, just a sec !

ggn(10:30 PM CET - Mar,18 2011 )
Bwahahaha "direct" to metal and "C" :)

In any case, even using a more efficient system than DirectX can't make up for sloppy programming.

And yeah, let's ditch 3D APIs and go back to the DOS days where each game had its own driver for different VGA cards - if your card wasn't in the list, tough cookies. Makes perfect sense to me :P

amra(10:40 PM CET - Mar,18 2011 )
quote:
This is bullshit !
Koogle will explain that in a press conference, just a sec !

:laughing6:

gx-x(11:52 PM CET - Mar,18 2011 )
what consoles was this dude talking about? crapBox 360 uses directX 9. That aside, only PS3 is able to reproduce decent graphics in games. The rest of the consoles on the market are sub-par even compared to PS2...

this leaves only PS3, so I guess he was talking about PS3 when he said "consoles". With that in mind, PS3 uses CELL cluster CPU, thus, it's architecture allows for completely different approach to rendering/creating pixels and geometry.

If I were in AMD gpu department, I would worry more about delivering performance and drivers, and less about PS3.

They need to fucking wake up, nvidia and AMD alike. PS3 and xbox are stealing their gfx sales because games work on them, because developers are sponsored by them (sony and m$).
If they want to keep selling their overpriced graphic cards, they will have to start spending money to make money.
$ony payed hundreds of millions $ to produce GT5 so they could sell it for 100$ and so they could sell millions of PS3s.
Maybe if AMD would to invest 200-300 million in few (good) games to be developed for PC in all it's glory, then they would make more sales of their GFX cards...To an average joe, investing 200$ in xbox makes far more sense then investing 100$ in X4 cpu, 200$ in AMD GFX + additional system components, just to find out that the games he plays work better and look almost the same on a 200-300$ console....and that there are almost no other games for PC except for console ports.

ziuka(12:10 AM CET - Mar,19 2011 )
Amen, brother :D

Genoism(12:49 AM CET - Mar,19 2011 )
the only thing koogle would say is that this is a conspiracy and therefore everyone should steal games.

Koogle(01:47 AM CET - Mar,19 2011 )
Ozieo> This is bullshit !
Koogle will explain that in a press conference, just a sec !


haha :lol: well thank you for that public speaker..

Koogle(02:02 AM CET - Mar,19 2011 )
Genoism> the only thing koogle would say is that this is a conspiracy and therefore everyone should steal games.

..Always some little maggot like genoism in the woodwork ready to come out and throw up his petty little crumb attacks

Anyway all I have to say is that it is because of the API's like opengl/directx and developer tools that most games are even around, in general developers are lazy and not many would even be capable of low level hardware programming, game engines/and api's help. So wherever the graphics hardware technology moves it will still require software to bridge the education & convenience programming gap, and MS is still the better dominating gatekeeper of that.

I doubt MS would let its bread and butter API slip by, it does bind together the whole PC hardware market and have a big say in direction, but more importantly it helps sell its Windows environment except now its shitty vis7a, while MS have a new lucrative market in the console gaming scene which it directly competes with the pc gaming scene.. so its nice to see that hardware directions could perhaps help shake the monopoly down . Which is a conveinet direction shift because I don't see Nvidia and AMD are that happy about MS being in the console market coining and controlling things from both directions, and i'd guess that a lot of large game developers with skilled developers would benefit from skipping past directx. Sadly I just don't see any of these changes happening very fast as they aren't going to be getting any support from MS with Windows if they were really determined to shut DirtyX out more.

Renton(03:37 AM CET - Mar,19 2011 )
Praise to id for staying in OpenGL. OpenAL wins over DirectSound. Hopes the same happen to Direct3D.

-=WolverinE=-(09:18 AM CET - Mar,19 2011 )
Renton> Praise to id for staying in OpenGL. OpenAL wins over DirectSound. Hopes the same happen to Direct3D.
Except that Carmack is now sticking to DirectX (look up older news posts).

Renton(09:48 AM CET - Mar,19 2011 )
-=WolverinE=-> Renton> Praise to id for staying in OpenGL. OpenAL wins over DirectSound. Hopes the same happen to Direct3D.
Except that Carmack is now sticking to DirectX (look up older news posts).


He only said that from a novelty point of view DX is better, but idTech5 is OpenGL, and they have no intentions on moving to Direct3D.

Nosferatu(11:47 AM CET - Mar,19 2011 )
quote:
what consoles was this dude talking about? crapBox 360 uses directX 9.

You can read in the article that APIs for consoles are provided for convenience early on in the life-cycle. As time passes by devs go the "direct to metal" route, as they get more and more familiar with the architecture. So directx is there, but devs are able to bypass it, if I understand correctly.

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